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The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

workmanlayout.org

141–150 of 165 posts

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#141
One neat trick (for programmers) is to switch your number row to use the symbols normally and shift to get the digits.

As a programmer you type those symbols way more often than digits. It's easy to get used to and it can make a difference if you have RSI issues.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#142
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re in a position to use armrests then you’re not sitting up straight. Likely leaning out on back “support” and your neck tensed up or on head “support” unless you have your monitor actually over above you. Needless to say, trying to keep your wrists up in that position would be uncomfortable. The best keyboard placement in this position is on your legs/thighs. Thin chiclet keyboard only laying flat. It’s not a…

If you’re in a position to use armrests then you’re not sitting up straight What an ignorant statement. It very obviously depends on the chair and body in question.

So are you sitting up straight or leaning back?

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#143
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re in a position to use armrests then you’re not sitting up straight What an ignorant statement. It very obviously depends on the chair and body in question.

So are you sitting up straight or leaning back?

Sitting up straight. You need to go chair shopping.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#145
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with you in general - that adjusting your body, and not your keyboard, is the fix - but not necessarily the specifics. The most important fixes imo are: - Neutral angle wrists (elbows flared so that it's a straight line from the elbow to the fingertips, i.e. no wrist "yaw") - Monitor at eye-level - Forearms parallel to the ground - Feet planted on the floor afaik slouching takes pressure of the lumbar vertebrae…

I take no issue with anything on that list. The pressure on lumbar is because of the positioning of your pelvis[1]. > Speaking of, an adjustable monitor arm is the best investment you can make. I use the Humanscale M2. I have my monitor on top of an entire hifi set and an old VHS player. But yeah an arm seems more sensible ;) [1] https://i.imgur.com/mp9uqLb.jpg

Agree - that image looks painful, but I'd term that a "hunch" more than a "slouch" (not sure if ergonomics makes a distinction between the two.)

My "slouch" is more of a reclining position, which I find quite comfortable.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#146
post #8

This looks interesting but the symbol still look very qwerty-ish. I type on Neo-2 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Neo ), which uses ISO keyboards and primarily targets German, even though the majority of my typing is in English. Its entire third layer is for symbols that are common in programming. Layer 3 is activated via either caps-lock or the key above Right Shift, and has \/{}* ?()-:@ as the home…

German users might also be interested in the AdNW layout ( http://www.adnw.de/ ). They started out with Neo’s excellent and logical arrangement of the non-alphabetical layers, but replaced the alphabetic layers with a layout created by running an optimization algorithm on a text corpus of 50% English and 50% German text (whereas in Neo the key arrangement was created manually, based on intuition). The metrics they us…

Had a look at it and it is not useful for me. I use Vim or vimbindings and the f is in a pretty bad spot, i will stay with neo.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#147
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take no issue with anything on that list. The pressure on lumbar is because of the positioning of your pelvis[1]. > Speaking of, an adjustable monitor arm is the best investment you can make. I use the Humanscale M2. I have my monitor on top of an entire hifi set and an old VHS player. But yeah an arm seems more sensible ;) [1] https://i.imgur.com/mp9uqLb.jpg

Agree - that image looks painful, but I'd term that a "hunch" more than a "slouch" (not sure if ergonomics makes a distinction between the two.) My "slouch" is more of a reclining position, which I find quite comfortable.

> My "slouch" is more of a reclining position, which I find quite comfortable.

Reclining is fine for relaxing but it’s not an ideal position for typing/work. For one thing you’re encouraging rounded shoulders, e.g. see: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/common-posture-mistake...

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#148
post #61

Sit up straight (fix your posture) and stop gluing your wrists to the desk or wrist “support” and the layout doesn’t matter unless you’re going for typing records. There is no magical layout that can eliminate the tension you’re artificially creating by stretching your fingers into unnatural positions instead of just moving the entire hand. What healthy typing looks like (on a horrible keyboard no less): https://www.…

I strongly, strongly disagree that the layout doesn't matter.

I was experiencing pretty bad pain from typing on a qwerty layout. Qwerty has high percentage of combinations that require jumping rows or contorting your hand.

I switched to Colemak (which follows a similar philosophy as Workman) and my hands have significantly too less pain. I still get some from being a heavy typer, but I no longer experience the worst of the paint.

I know you can't prove anything with one word, but the word nice is a great example.

On qwerty, "n-i" forces an uncomfortable twist with the pointer and middle finger. "c-e" forces a jump of the home row.

On colemak, "n", "i", and "e" are all on the home row with the same hand. "c" is on the opposite hand in the lower row. There's no uncomfortable twisting.

You find these types of improvements across nearly all of the intentional layout designs like drovak, colemak, and workman. Regardless of "proper" posture, they do minimize a lot of difficult typing procedures.

Look at the stats on this comment alone: http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/load/1mwrX5bH

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#149
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with you in general - that adjusting your body, and not your keyboard, is the fix - but not necessarily the specifics. The most important fixes imo are: - Neutral angle wrists (elbows flared so that it's a straight line from the elbow to the fingertips, i.e. no wrist "yaw") - Monitor at eye-level - Forearms parallel to the ground - Feet planted on the floor afaik slouching takes pressure of the lumbar vertebrae…

I take no issue with anything on that list. The pressure on lumbar is because of the positioning of your pelvis[1]. > Speaking of, an adjustable monitor arm is the best investment you can make. I use the Humanscale M2. I have my monitor on top of an entire hifi set and an old VHS player. But yeah an arm seems more sensible ;) [1] https://i.imgur.com/mp9uqLb.jpg

Wait ! So an anterior pelvic tilt when sitting is actually good for you ?

That seems counter inuitive since it is bad for you to stand in that way .

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#150
post #61

Sit up straight (fix your posture) and stop gluing your wrists to the desk or wrist “support” and the layout doesn’t matter unless you’re going for typing records. There is no magical layout that can eliminate the tension you’re artificially creating by stretching your fingers into unnatural positions instead of just moving the entire hand. What healthy typing looks like (on a horrible keyboard no less): https://www.…

I strongly, strongly disagree that the layout doesn't matter. I was experiencing pretty bad pain from typing on a qwerty layout. Qwerty has high percentage of combinations that require jumping rows or contorting your hand. I switched to Colemak (which follows a similar philosophy as Workman) and my hands have significantly too less pain. I still get some from being a heavy typer, but I no longer experience the worst…

> Qwerty has high percentage of combinations that require jumping rows or contorting your hand.

And my point is it doesn’t matter when your wrist is not glued to your desk. You don’t need to contort anything if your hand is free and relaxed over the keys. If something is far away, I just move my entire hand over there.

Look, here’s me typing “nice” using two different methods:

https://streamable.com/mlys1

(I’m just typing “hello world” at the end)

> I still get some [pain] from being a heavy typer, but I no longer experience the worst of the pain.

In the second example you can see my hands are completely relaxed, I’m not “contorting” anything, I could type like that for hours. Zero pain. None. Nada. Nil.

Colemak, Dvorak, etc, they’re all optimizing how to do least damage with the horrible typing method that no one ought to use in the first place.

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