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Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

bloomberg.com

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Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#141

Post by asv23c »

digikata wrote: post #123
rhacker wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was trying to parse this too, if my fridge SP was awful in all the ways mentioned, wouldn't I be looking at the competition, especially now that it's easy to cancel a contract and get a better one so easily - instead of paying $1k for a new fridge.

You can rent fridges right now, few people elect to do it...

I think you mean "Few people elect to do the thing they barely know exists."

The model being peddled on TV/radio/etc isn't "Rent a fridge." is it?

This is just another "language war". The airwaves and communications channels are monopolized by discourse that protects the known way of doing business. It's not a law of physics it be that way.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#142

Post by keithpeter »

mud_dauber wrote: post #89
_ah wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more subtle than that. Needing less stuff gives freedom. Renting stuff instead gives less freedom... you have many of the same expenses as ownership, but if you ever stop paying your useful stuff disappears. Owned objects of utility provide insurance to ride out times with limited income.

Agreed. That’s a fair rebuttal.

When I read the OA, I thought of how many possessions a typical farm worker would own in (say) 1890 and compare that to now.

UK: I'm just old enough to remember visiting a great-grandmother who lived in a cottage without electricity and who regarded the cold water tap and separate water heater as luxuries. And the great aunt who still cooked on a range. Their houses were dark and sparse. Both paid rent for their houses by the way.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#144

Post by asdfman123 »

_ah wrote: post #31
mud_dauber wrote: post #13

It's simple. Less stuff equals more freedom. Freedom to move. Freedom from debt. Freedom from "keeping up with the Joneses". Freedom from soul-crushing jobs.

I think it's more subtle than that. Needing less stuff gives freedom. Renting stuff instead gives less freedom... you have many of the same expenses as ownership, but if you ever stop paying your useful stuff disappears. Owned objects of utility provide insurance to ride out times with limited income.

Well, if you just rent your apartment and use Uber or public transit to go anywhere, while owning a minimal amount of furniture, you can get up and go anywhere you want, whenever you want. That's freedom.

If you own a car and a house, you're pretty much stuck where you are.

I think in any situation, if you're living paycheck-to-paycheck you don't have freedom. A prerequisite to any kind of freedom is the ability to live well within your means and save a lot so that you're insulated from financial setbacks.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#145

Post by jonknee »

magduf wrote: post #106
ryandvm wrote: post #12

As someone who has given away a couple thousand dollars worth of crappy music from the 80s and 90s, I can say for certain that I am glad I don't own it anymore. A Spotify subscription that allows me to listen to practically any song that was ever recorded is of far more utility than a pathetically limited personal music collection.

Why on earth would you pay $ per month to have access to music you like, when you can just have it in MP3/Ogg form, stored on multiple devices (PC, phone, backup HD) and be able to listen to it at any time you want for free?

From my point of view, why on Earth would you bother to have music in MP3/Ogg form where you have to manage it and plan what you want to listen to? Spotify is a paradigm shift for music consumption and I would never want to go back to collecting manually.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#146

Post by sailfast »

I have to laugh a little bit here. Cowen is implying by his tone and his use of "Americans" that people are making this choice willingly.

If you don't have the capital to own, or it becomes too difficult to manage the things you own, it gets harder. I don't think ownership is a problem for people with plenty of capital, it's just a lot more scarce than it used to be for most of the population. Kindle books are cheaper and tinier, therefore I sacrifice a bit of rights for practicality - otherwise Amazon may not put out the books for fear of piracy, or the publisher wouldn't grant the rights. (mix of convenience plus moving / inventory costs / cheaper purchase cost)

Additionally, companies that provide these services have no incentive to give consumers additional rights to these devices and happily remove these rights - sometimes without a reason at the time - and fight them in court.

I totally agree with him that a consumer rights movement needs to gain steam ASAP to counter potentially misinformed abdication of consumer rights, and to establish solid baselines that is better for consumers. This needs to happen at a grass roots level and then wallets need to fix the behavior.

As for the lack of capital / buying things - much bigger question but I wish Mr. Cowen would at least acknowledge it.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#147

Post by ictoan »

_bxg1 wrote: post #134

The article identifies some problems but totally misses their actual source. The problem isn't that we own less stuff, it's that the ownership is replaced by a dependency on a handful of corporations which we have no ability to influence or appeal to. The substitution of individual ownership for a communal one in which individuals retain a stake - a real community, or at a larger scale, a democracy - is not inherentl…

In other words, monopoly.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#148

Post by superkuh »

Here is a non-computational paywall (ie, you run untrusted code on your computer or you don't get to see) mirror of the article text: https://via.hypothes.is/https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...

And here's a mirror of just the article raw text: https://pastebin.com/bqBWgDPk

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#149

Post by ashelmire »

digikata wrote: post #123
rhacker wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was trying to parse this too, if my fridge SP was awful in all the ways mentioned, wouldn't I be looking at the competition, especially now that it's easy to cancel a contract and get a better one so easily - instead of paying $1k for a new fridge.

You can rent fridges right now, few people elect to do it...

Because it's more expensive over a relatively short period, perhaps?

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#150

Post by white-flame »

grogenaut wrote: post #55
torstenvl wrote: post #21

The issue is that ownership used to constitute a form of wealth, but now it constitutes a relentless financial drain. When I got stationed in Northern Virginia, I thought about buying a condo. But almost everywhere I looked, there were absurd HOA fees, some as much as $400/mo. Considering I could rent a room for $750/mo, it didn't make sense to buy. If RENT As for physical possessions, they all cost money (in rent!).…

If how+mortgage is even slightly more than rent you still end up doing well as soon as you are able to clear the agent and closing costs in recouping. Renting is easier to move for sure. But stay there 3 years and the story may be different. Stay there 8 years and you're making out well over rent. But being statitioned I can see why you might not. Then again I have friends with rentals in 5 cities for the same reason…

The equation wasn't "rent interest". There is zero equity involved in the latter equation.
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