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The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

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Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#141

Post by l9k »

sidlls wrote: post #41
BurningFrog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me steelman that argument. Libraries were invented because information was only available on printed (or hand written) books, which were very expensive and scarce resources. Now information can be available almost literally for free and instantly, to anywhere. If the institutional inertia of libraries didn't exist today, would they really be invented as they are? https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man

Free (except for the cost of bandwidth/internet access, including devices), instantly (unless internet service is poor or inconsistent or both), and anywhere (that has internet access), you mean. There's nothing improved about the argument, it's just obfuscated better.

Compare internet to library:

Free: Transportation to go to your library (2x train ticket, or car + gas): minimum ~$5 / day so $60 a month, plus library card if not free

Instantly: ~30 minutes to go, 30 minutes to get back home, depending on where you live. Worst internet connection need a few seconds.

Anywhere: you have to physically go to the one library and hope you find the book you're looking for. Nowadays you have internet access pretty much anywhere.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#142

Post by eric_the_read »

robrenaud wrote: post #55
nxc18 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As they exist today: free access to computers and internet. Information is only literally free and instant if you have access to the internet, which isn't gauranteed especially for low income people.

For a librarian's salary, one could subsidize lots of internet for low income people.

Have you looked at public librarian salaries lately? A senior-- senior, mind you-- librarian at the Colorado Springs Library District is being offered $25/hr. I don't recall for certain by now, but I'm pretty sure I made more than that my very first year out of school and I'm practically decrepit by this site's standards.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#143

Post by jdietrich »

BurningFrog wrote: post #26
Sharlin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I read a library-related discussion on HN, one of the sentiments expressed was basically ”I download ebooks, why would anyone need a library?” Boggles the mind. There was also a bizarre comment about libraries being only funded to keep a bunch of otherwise useless civil servants employed.

Let me steelman that argument. Libraries were invented because information was only available on printed (or hand written) books, which were very expensive and scarce resources. Now information can be available almost literally for free and instantly, to anywhere. If the institutional inertia of libraries didn't exist today, would they really be invented as they are? https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man

I think it might be a net benefit if we rename libraries "community resource centers". The argument against the old, narrow function of libraries falls apart if they're named in a way that reflects their current purpose.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#144

Post by vxNsr »

topkai22 wrote: post #81

The interesting thing on this thread is that while there is a general agreement libraries are high ROI government institutions and worth preserving, I don’t think anyone has defended the libraries role as a repository of books. I personally I am glad that these neighborhood book warehouses exist, we personally take our kids to checkout books about monthly. But as an adult? Almost all my check outs are via inter libra…

I think your loan idea has some merit, if instead of replacing libraries they acted as the delivery boy for libraries, free of charge and didn't take the tax right off, that would be a net win. Because my guess is the biggest cost for that interlibary loan was the shipping.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#145

Post by howard941 »

jerkstate wrote: post #6

When I was a young child, the library was a place for me to go to sit on a beanbag and read childrens books for hours while my mom studied for her masters degree. Now 2/3 of library patrons are homeless or struggling with addiction, and some parents may not wish to leave their children unattended in such an environment. I don't think Amazon has the answers but I see a natural tension between welcoming vagrants and ma…

It might help if shelters wouldn't throw their charges out at a 7:00 AM

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#147

Post by 394549 »

bovermyer wrote: post #67
rb808 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> try going to one This is probably the best hint that they might not be so useful. The truth is most people never go to libraries.

"Most people," huh? Got a source for that?

>>> try going to one

>> This is probably the best hint that they might not be so useful. The truth is most people never go to libraries.

> "Most people," huh? Got a source for that?

His real name must be "Most People" and what he said is entirely an anecdote describing his own personal habits and preferences.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#148

Post by jschwartzi »

romaniv wrote: post #59
geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

This is a very important point. Libraries do more than just lend books. They are institutions that preserve and promote knowledge and have certain values "built in". They also often serve as local community centers of sorts. Having cheap books available in Kindle store does not fully replace functionality of a library.

Yeah, the guy who wrote the original article(that this piece responds to) had obviously never set foot in a library, because he still thinks of them as repositories of books. That's a function but it's not the main function.

When I lived in a semi-rural area as a teenager the library was one of the few places me and my geeky friends could congregate for hours. They would let us reserve meeting rooms so we could play games together. If that library hadn't been there we would have had no third place.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#149

Post by s73v3r_ »

petra wrote: post #106
sidlls wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free (except for the cost of bandwidth/internet access, including devices), instantly (unless internet service is poor or inconsistent or both), and anywhere (that has internet access), you mean. There's nothing improved about the argument, it's just obfuscated better.

The internet, at least intermittently and slowly -which is enough for books, is more accessible than public libraries.

Only if you ignore the cost of a device and service.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#150

Post by ianai »

ironjunkie wrote: post #50

I think there is a growing sentiment of disdain of Silicon Valley and tech in general. And I can see why, and it is getting more and more justified. As this article states, that arrogance to think that everything should/can be "disrupted". Usually the argument for disruption is always around another version of "making the world a better place", while it is very clear that the main motivation is to make a couple tech…

Ime, the “disrupted” products I’ve purchased were way over priced and fragile or worthless. Not just from amazon either. Oh and of course they come with daily spam.
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