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How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

citylab.com

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Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#141

Post by sampo »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #135
sampo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can spring up a new, distant, car-based suburb on a pristine land. The deer and the groundhog who used to live there, don't get a vote. But usually, people who already live in a city of, say, density X, are pretty strongly opposed to building more and increasing the density to 1.2 X. Also, those 0.2 X new residents naturally are only moving in in the future, so they don't get to vote, either. Somehow, the attitud…

Increasing density in cities is not the only way to get people out of their cars. It is very possible to expand cities outwards, while still maintaining walkability and bikeability. Expanding public transit alongside the city is one of the best ways.

This inevitably means increasing density in those suburbs the city is extending to. Very uncommon to have unbuild land right next to a dense city.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#143

Post by KozmoNau7 »

sampo wrote: post #141
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasing density in cities is not the only way to get people out of their cars. It is very possible to expand cities outwards, while still maintaining walkability and bikeability. Expanding public transit alongside the city is one of the best ways.

This inevitably means increasing density in those suburbs the city is extending to. Very uncommon to have unbuild land right next to a dense city.

You're only increasing density to be similar to the city proper. The "preferred density" zone doesn't disappear, it simply moves outwards a bit.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#144

Post by mcny »

dionidium wrote: post #109
djrogers wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a suburb, and am raising my kids in a suburb, and all of that is completely doable. You don’t need a car to get around a suburb...

"Suburb" is a pretty generic term. My hometown has older, inner-ring suburbs that are built more or less on a street grid, with local shops, connections to transit, and walkable corridors. It also has far-flung, residential-only, cul-de-sac communities where literally nothing is within safe walking distance. [0] We call both "suburbs," but they're very different places. [0] What would somebody who lives here walk to,…

Thank you. Moreover, it feels like suburbs (I’m calling the town of Overland Park, Kansas a suburb) can’t or don’t clean sidewalks and crosswalks as quickly (if at all) or worse use the sidewalk as a dumping ground for snow from the road. Even on a normal day, a walk to the post office and back home can easily take half an hour, probably closer to an hour if you’re walking. That being said, it feels cramped to live in a city. There are other reasons to not get a pet (allegedly my fear of commitment) but I hesitate getting a proper desktop computer because it will occupy space. It feels illogical and wasteful (and unhealthy?) of brain cycles to worry about space that much. (What if I have to move... )

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#145

Post by antod »

nimbius wrote: post #42

speaking as an engine mechanic for a small chain of auto repair shops, it feels like americans have grown outright apathetic to the commute offered by cars --any car-- in this age. How do i figure? Maintenance. My most common customer comes in complaining about a noise or a smell and stares at her shoes when asked when the last major service was, what the mileage is, or when the last oil change was. Its almost like d…

I can understand the feeling though. Even though I don't commute by car any more, I see the same thing in how I treat my mountain bike vs how I treat my commuter bike. My mountain bike is for fun and gets cleaned/maintained etc after I use it in the weekends. My commuter bike is used during the week either first thing in the morning or early evenings before getting home for a meal and seeing my family. It's kinda a necessary evil and resented a bit compared to my mountain bike. I want it to just work and not have to think about it (until it annoyingly doesn't).

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#146

Post by numtel »

GiorgioG wrote: post #101
dionidium wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When your kid spikes a fever at 1am and you have no car and you need to go buy some children’s ibuprofen, what are you going to do? I could hit 3 bodegas from my front steps with a rock. I don't need to start a truck to get Ibuprofen.

I’m happy for you but not everyone lives in such a place that has that many options within spitting distance.

Tiny villages in Mexico have these kinds of options. It's not an amazing achievement.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#147

Post by sizzle »

themagician wrote: post #97
yosito wrote: post #4

Anecdotally, I always loved having a car and the sense of independence and freedom that came with it. Then at the age of 25, I moved out of the country to a small, walkable town in Latin America where I either walked, drove my scooter, or took motorcycle taxis everywhere. After two years of living there, I moved back to the US, bought a Jeep, and was super excited to have the autonomy and ability to travel between ci…

Me right now. But for me I just moved from San Francisco to Southern California. The amount of time I have to spend just moving myself about is insane. People talk about how expensive SF is, but I didn’t have to spend 15 hours a week just moving myself around to work and back, grocery store, misc errands, etc. Between the cost of my time and the car I’m spending $3,000/mo just to be miserable. It sucks. Can’t wait to…

What part of socal? Inland Empire? San Bernardino?

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#148

Post by adrianN »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #135
sampo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can spring up a new, distant, car-based suburb on a pristine land. The deer and the groundhog who used to live there, don't get a vote. But usually, people who already live in a city of, say, density X, are pretty strongly opposed to building more and increasing the density to 1.2 X. Also, those 0.2 X new residents naturally are only moving in in the future, so they don't get to vote, either. Somehow, the attitud…

Increasing density in cities is not the only way to get people out of their cars. It is very possible to expand cities outwards, while still maintaining walkability and bikeability. Expanding public transit alongside the city is one of the best ways.

Low density settlements have real trouble financing all the infrastructure they need from the taxes they get. I agree that a lot can be done with proper zoning to reduce the need for a car, but good public transit needs a certain density.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#149

Post by adrianN »

zjaffee wrote: post #107
flaque wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true though. 80% of Americans live in an urban areas: https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/ua/uafacts.html

This defines towns with ~1000 people in them with nothing else for 50 miles as an urban area.

Then look at the number of people in urbanized areas

> An urbanized area consists of densely developed territory that contains 50,000 or more people.

Still 70% of the US population.

Re: How the Car Keeps Americans Apart

#150

Post by adrianN »

BooneJS wrote: post #120

This is true of larger cities and metros, but the size of the US is too large to get rid of cars. I’m currently on a road trip through at least 7 states, and the car is the only way I pull that off.

If the main use of cars were seven state road trips I don't think people would complain about being stuck in rush hour traffic or having to drive twenty minutes to the nearest grocery store.
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