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European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

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Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#141

Post by mattmanser »

repolfx wrote: post #94
rusk wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That first claim is clearly wrong though. No it isn't. But your attempt at refutation is. > Android doesn't have a monopoly. Apple does fine in Europe Apple has its segment. Android is pretty much everything else. It is "dominant" in the market. > Secondly, there are device makers that didn't cut a deal with Google The complaint relates specifically to access to google play services.

But Android isn't a phone maker. It's a component that is usually customised. Now go look at who are making phones on this base: Samsung is the most popular but it doesn't have a monopoly. Is the EU going to fine ARM next for having a monopoly on mobile CPUs?

It's not that at all. It's abuse of dominance, not the dominance itself that's the problem.

They're using a dominant position in one market to push services in an unrelated market. That's anti-trust 101. And they punish suppliers who don't tow the line.

This is exactly the same as the MS anti-trust case. Swap IE for Google Web Services (Search/Maps/Chrome) and swap Android for Windows.

If ARM started forcing phone companies using their CPUs to only sell to AT&T, that's your analogy. As it is, because ARM don't force unrelated services or products on their customers, it's not analogous.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#143

Post by blub »

repolfx wrote: post #86
shaqbert wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The punishment is not for pursuing an open source distribution model, but by applying undue power in taking back control of the open distribution model.

But Apple hasn't been fined in the same way. So apparently if Google had kept Android proprietary, and made their own hardware, they'd be totally OK, even though there'd only be two phone makers left in the world instead of dozens like there is now? I'm sorry but this move is garbage. I am British and I'm so glad the UK is leaving this horrible, success hating farce of a union. Google paid billions to develop Android…

The fact that Android was open source was a huge factor in increasing adoption and obliterating the other competition (like Symbian, Windows, etc). It's a competitive advantage, not a kind hearted choice.

When Android was launched is was just another unknown piece of software, poor performance, lack of features, etc.

They can't both reap the profits of open source and then reject any disadvantages (such as with their anti-fragmentation clause).

They have the option at any point to go closed source and face the huge shitstorm that will follow.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#144

Post by bubblethink »

repolfx wrote: post #86
shaqbert wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The punishment is not for pursuing an open source distribution model, but by applying undue power in taking back control of the open distribution model.

But Apple hasn't been fined in the same way. So apparently if Google had kept Android proprietary, and made their own hardware, they'd be totally OK, even though there'd only be two phone makers left in the world instead of dozens like there is now? I'm sorry but this move is garbage. I am British and I'm so glad the UK is leaving this horrible, success hating farce of a union. Google paid billions to develop Android…

>if Google had kept Android proprietary, and made their own hardware, they'd be totally OK

Yes, why is that surprising ? They would also not get the benefit of OEMs shipping their bundle of services across the globe.

>gave it away for free under the Apache license specifically to encourage competition

It has nothing to do with increasing competition. It's anything but. That's one of the reasons for the fine. The non compete clause prevents OEMs from creating forks of Android.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#145

Post by andyjohnson0 »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #123
theBobBob wrote: post #103

Very slightly off topic but I actually think how Android handles default apps is the best of both worlds. It comes with very very good default Google Apps that work well together but it is very easy to switch out whatever you want for an alternative. How iOS handles it is the opposite. For their default apps they either straight out not allow competitors, severely limit what their competitors or (if I remember correc…

Could you please tell me how I can uninstall the default apps, or at least keep them from constantly updating themselves? That half a gig of unwanted apps that just keeps growing itself is pretty annoying.

Default apps are often built-in and can't be uninstalled. But you can disable them. See https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/2521768 for details. If you do this then it's worth uninstalling any updates to the app first, to free-up some space.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#146

Post by oblio »

repolfx wrote: post #60
minxomat wrote: post #8

To put that into context: > Despite being a record fine, Alphabet generated about the same amount of money every 16 days in 2017, based on the company’s reported annual revenue of $110.9 billion for the year.

To put it in a slightly different context, this is more money than the annual contributions of quite a few EU member states. Google is now a bigger contributor to the EU budget than Belgium, the Netherlands or Ireland. http://www.europarl.europa.eu/external/html/budgetataglance/... Fines paid to the EU go straight into its own general budget. Combined with the nature of the EU Commission as judge, jury and executione…

The other countries will increase their contributions after Brexit:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/european-commiss...

The EU budget (which is very small for such a big project) will actually increase post-Brexit.

Your comment is totally bogus.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#147

Post by pedroaraujo »

repolfx wrote: post #86
shaqbert wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The punishment is not for pursuing an open source distribution model, but by applying undue power in taking back control of the open distribution model.

But Apple hasn't been fined in the same way. So apparently if Google had kept Android proprietary, and made their own hardware, they'd be totally OK, even though there'd only be two phone makers left in the world instead of dozens like there is now? I'm sorry but this move is garbage. I am British and I'm so glad the UK is leaving this horrible, success hating farce of a union. Google paid billions to develop Android…

Apple doesn't try to tap markets that doesn't own and to force their own ecosystem into those markets. Google does. That's the fundamental difference.

It is okay for them to do whatever they want with their Nexus/Pixel devices, since they fully own them. But forcing some random DTV vendor to install Google Search, Google Social Network, Google Online Shop, Google Payment System, Google This and Google That, just because the vendor chose to adopt a free operative system into their system, it's just abuse of power and monopoly.

It automatically gives Google an advantage over the Search, Online Shop, Social Network, etc, markets. It is basically impossible to start a new video streaming business in the DTV market, for example, when you know that every single DTV system has Youtube already installed just because Google mandates so. And Youtube is "good enough" for 90% of the people.

The entire world doesn't suddenly owe something to Google just because they made something open source.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#148

Post by oblio »

therealmarv wrote: post #96

History is repeating itself. Only difference is that Google search and Chrome browser is not as bad as MSN and IE in former times. Why Google did not looked on how MS handled that issue when you become the market leader?

Because crime at that level pays and we're talking $$$. The fine is just a slap on the wrist in the overall scheme of things.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#150

Post by mynameisss »

Fragment of wikipedia about politics absolutism: According to some political theorists, complete obedience to a single will is necessary to maintain order and security. Android is more secure and ordered the way it is, but in the long term absolutism is a way of slavery and we need the opportuntiy of change and improvement, not slavery.
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