American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage • Hacker News Board

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#141

Post by UncleEntity » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 6:34 PM UTC

wild_preference wrote: post #62

Derived wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has plenty of cities that are just like cities everywhere else...we're a big country, we hardly have need to pack everyone in like sardines. I live in a major city, downtown. And I'm starting to hate it. No personal space, no yard, shared (or no) garage, and I'm a car enthusiast by the way, which I'm sure is practically a dirty word around most city-dwellers now. I'm seriously considering moving out to the su…

I don’t think so. American cities just aren’t dense enough to please compact-city lovers looking for a walkable experience like Prague. Even where I live in Guadalajara is better than every city I’ve lived in the States because of all the tiny shops near me. In the States I may have a 7/11 near me which doesn’t even carry coffee grounds or fruit/veg. It’s kind if a sad place to live.

That's more of a cultural thing methinks.

In the predominantly hispanic areas around Phoenix there are tons of tiny shops serving the neighborhood -- it's a thing. Where I live now there used to be a few corner markets but now that gentrification is in full swing they are all gone and are being replaced with trendy restaurant/bars with the people presumably now shopping at the major supermarkets. There were probably more before they built the super-massive Ranch Market but I didn't live in this area then so can't really say.

I'd venture to say it has more to do with the cost of owning/operating a car, in Mexico (and much of Europe) they are significantly more costly than the US so the convenience of "shopping local" is different.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#142

Post by justincormack » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 6:36 PM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #123

This article tries to make the (weak) point that there is plenty of parking simply because averages show they spots sit empty most of the time. But that type of analysis ignores the obvious fact that most parking is built to support peak times. Most mall parking lots sit mostly empty, except on the weekends when everyone goes to the mall or restaurants or whatever. Corporate lots sit empty on the weekends. Cut any of…

The level that allows all cars to park at peak times is not the economically efficient level; that hugely increases the overall cost, as you cant use parking for any other use. Peak cases should have surge pricing to ration the space there are for efficiency, and the overall level should be less.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#143

Post by UncleEntity » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #117

2bitencryption wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I may have a 7/11 near me which doesn’t even carry coffee grounds or fruit/veg. It’s kind if a sad place to live. it's only sad because you went to a 7/11 expecting to get produce! I guarantee you there's a real grocery store within a few blocks.

I guarantee you there's a real grocery store within a few blocks. Pretty good chance that's not true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert "In 2010, the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) reported that 23.5% of Americans live in a food desert, meaning that they live more than one mile from a supermarket in urban or suburban areas, and more than 10 miles from a supermarket in rural areas."

> Pretty good chance that's not true

Or a 23.5% chance that's not true...

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#144

Post by ghaff » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #139

ghaff wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how much that tells you. There are plenty of moribund malls around. I'll probably be able to find plenty of parking outside JC Penney or Toys R Us at the one near me any day of the year. There are other local malls I'm not going anywhere near after about mid November.

Yeah, malls are dying, and they're almost certainly not paying enough for the value of all that empty parking. Land value tax!

The dying malls are mostly in less affluent and more rural areas where land isn't in especially high demand. That's certainly the case with the one fairly near me.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#145

Post by ebikelaw » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #34

I always thought it was weird how there is so much parking in the centre of US cities. When I talk to colleagues in various US cities and they say they drive to work it just Does. Not. Compute . In central London, driving to work is essentially unheard of unless you are the Prime Minister. There is parking available in London, but the prices are fairly high - I just had a quick look on parkopedia [1] and it looks lik…

Technically the Prime Minister is forbidden from driving to work, or to any other place.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#146

Post by crazygringo » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 6:39 PM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #123

This article tries to make the (weak) point that there is plenty of parking simply because averages show they spots sit empty most of the time. But that type of analysis ignores the obvious fact that most parking is built to support peak times. Most mall parking lots sit mostly empty, except on the weekends when everyone goes to the mall or restaurants or whatever. Corporate lots sit empty on the weekends. Cut any of…

Exactly. I'm all for mass transit replacing cars and parking... but this article falls flat on its face trying to argue that not-enough-parking is an illusion.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#147

Post by justincormack » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 6:39 PM UTC

Brakenshire wrote: post #92

matthewowen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of London, the majority of people in the UK drive to work. Likewise, the majority of people commuting to (eg) Manhattan don't drive to work. When someone in Houston says that they drive to work, the comparison isn't to someone working in Central London. It's to someone who lives who works in the outskirts of Birmingham. I think the US is too car dependent. But from my experience, outside of London the UK is p…

Yes, that’s true. Unfortunately in the UK there’s a lot of cross-subsidy taking revenues away from commuter and intercity train services, which are in demand, and giving it to rural services which people don’t use. Hence the commuter services are not able to grow enough to compete with cars.

Revenue isnt taken away from commuter services, they are basically unsubsidized.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#148

Post by microcolonel » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 6:39 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #100

microcolonel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some, the grass is always greener on the other side. It is stylish today to criticize every tradeoff the U.S. has made in order to credibly claim that every habitable square foot of every state is "inhabited", but a lot of it makes perfect sense. There is one piece of public transit which makes a lot of sense in the U.S.: the bus (both local and coach buses), but it is unstylish and so gets no attention. Imagine…

Amtrak is very popular on certain routes, predominantly in the Northeast Corridor. And, in fact, those routes are being upgraded. But poor people certainly don't use it. They take something like Megabus. And the money Amtrak makes in the northeast covers, though not entirely, a lot of long haul routes that aren't competitive with air.

Sure, if AmTrak restructured around a lack of federal subsidies for lines in the red, the Northeast Corridor (possibly incl. Acela Express) would clearly remain in operation. It's just that a major part of the network is composed of routes where the subsidy exceeds the fare, and the fare is still too high for most people to consider.

Also, not really sure why the federal government is subsidizing $10-40+ one-way fares (receiving an average of 25 dollars in federal subsidy) as "commuter" service, even in the less-bad Capitol Corridor.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#149

Post by cozzyd » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 6:41 PM UTC

runarberg wrote: post #44

ebikelaw wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of a weird argument that nobody wants to take the bus or the train because it's too crowded. Very Berra.

Take the Sound Transit 550. It is the main (only direct?) busline between downtown Seattle and Bellevue. During rush hour it comes at an interval of 10 - 15 min. The bus it self is a double wagon (with an accordion connection), it fits maybe (beware I'm pulling this figure from thin air) 50 people. It is always crowded with people standing back to front. During these 10 - 15 minutes one can only imagine how many peop…

A full articulated bus generally has a capacity of over 100 people.

Re: American Cities Are Drowning in Car Storage

#150

Post by crazygringo » Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 6:41 PM UTC

justincormack wrote: post #142

jjeaff wrote: post #123

This article tries to make the (weak) point that there is plenty of parking simply because averages show they spots sit empty most of the time. But that type of analysis ignores the obvious fact that most parking is built to support peak times. Most mall parking lots sit mostly empty, except on the weekends when everyone goes to the mall or restaurants or whatever. Corporate lots sit empty on the weekends. Cut any of…

The level that allows all cars to park at peak times is not the economically efficient level; that hugely increases the overall cost, as you cant use parking for any other use. Peak cases should have surge pricing to ration the space there are for efficiency, and the overall level should be less.

But they already mostly do. In far-out suburbs, huge mall parking lots aren't competing with anything else, there's plenty of space.

And in downtown cities, parking garages are alreay expensive. $30-50/day in Manhattan, for example. (I would agree that street parking should match garage rates, and not be effectively subsidized, though.)