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A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

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Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#141

Post by jeandejean »

These theories of humanizing trees become more and more popular lately. But it seems based on observation and speculation only, which is almost certainly completely biased against what people would like to hear: that trees are like the lord of the rings ents. How cool!

Not to mention that Waorani just evidently lack abstraction in their language, which is at the root of understanding the world, not missing some obviously networked nature of trees.

I'm disappointed that such nonscientific articles are published in hacker news.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#142

Post by 0xTJ »

some_account wrote: post #23

Humans can't perceive a lot of things, and on top of that, we have egos that makes us feel superior even though in reality, we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. If you ever had a cat and really observed it and communicated with it, you know it has feelings and emotions. Birds have it also, so does pigs, horses... But we just ignore all that when it's convenient for us to ea…

How do other species live in harmony? Ever listed to the into scene in lion king? We're just animals who got smarter. It's part of the "harmony" you speak of for animals to eat other animal.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#143

Post by 0xTJ »

mpfundstein wrote: post #34
Lewton wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would if they could

Who knows... i don’t believe intelligence necessarily implies tendencies for mass murder

A lion wants to eat. It's not murder, it's feeding. Putting a cow in a field of grass is no different than putting a lion in a field of cow.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#144

Post by msiyer »

xd wrote: post #85
some_account wrote: post #23

Humans can't perceive a lot of things, and on top of that, we have egos that makes us feel superior even though in reality, we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. If you ever had a cat and really observed it and communicated with it, you know it has feelings and emotions. Birds have it also, so does pigs, horses... But we just ignore all that when it's convenient for us to ea…

I'm not a big fan of humanity. We are pretty awful. Self loathing of the human race needs to stop, there are an incredible number of hard working people making the world a better place one step at a time. Our impact on the world barely registers to past extinction level events. Humanity has just as much right to exist and be as any other species. If you don't like what we are doing, work to improve things. Are you aw…

"Self loathing of the human race needs to stop"

I completely agree.

"Humanity has just as much right to exist and be as any other species"

I completely agree.

"Are you aware how many countless people have and do work to improve your quality of life, protect you, make sure you are fed and watered and provided with distractions like HN to complain about how awful we are."

It is a symbiosis. You make it sound like a parasitic relationship.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#145

Post by lstodd »

mft_ wrote: post #129
vidarh wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, your cat will also likely be very cruel if it ever caches a mouse or a bird, so I'll raise you that for harmony :) We had a cat once who, we found out, liked to sit in the berry bushes in the garden, wait for a bird to land, and then kill them. She didn't didn't eat them - she much preferred the cat food she got. She just murdered bird after bird and left them to rot. Cats certainly are not the best examples…

Are (aren't?) cats the only animal that kills for fun, rather than food? (Apart from the scum that are some humans...)

It's like you say my cats took and hidden my sunshades, car keys, electronic components from my lab desk to make fun of me.

It's not, it's just their nature, which in other words is what they evolved to do.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#146

Post by msiyer »

some_account wrote: post #23

Humans can't perceive a lot of things, and on top of that, we have egos that makes us feel superior even though in reality, we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. If you ever had a cat and really observed it and communicated with it, you know it has feelings and emotions. Birds have it also, so does pigs, horses... But we just ignore all that when it's convenient for us to ea…

Humans cannot perceive a lot of things. However, given the right conditions (post-apocalyptic world?), it would not take a lot of time before humans become perceptive again. A lot many will be wiped out, but as a species we will find a way.

I have a couple of dogs and I know what you mean. With the level of intelligence we possess, we should have achieved more. Technological achievements mean nothing when 70+% human population of the world struggles to survive. I think we use too much of our left brain and too little of the right. A balance is what is needed. Understanding this needs intelligence.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#147

Post by TangoTrotFox »

novia wrote: post #126
TangoTrotFox wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are misunderstanding the equilibrium of nature. There's no great and beautiful mutually orchestrated harmony. What happens invariably is a predator hunts a prey to the point of scarcity. At this point, assuming that prey was the predator's primary diet, the predators begin to literally starve to death which lowers their population. This, in turn, gives the prey a chance to increase their population with f…

>The other animals introduced to the Mauritius also had a taste for the Dodo and its eggs in particular. Which species introduced the other animals to the Mauritius?

Indeed in this case it was humans, though the same thing happens with regularity without humans. Creatures migrate, environments change leading certain creatures to prosper and others to flounder, and so on. Acting like there's some beautiful harmony in nature is missing the fact that it's a cruel and selfish system that humans, as a whole, have managed to rise above and indeed had to rise above for the sake of all life on this planet.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#148

Post by girvo »

mft_ wrote: post #129
vidarh wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, your cat will also likely be very cruel if it ever caches a mouse or a bird, so I'll raise you that for harmony :) We had a cat once who, we found out, liked to sit in the berry bushes in the garden, wait for a bird to land, and then kill them. She didn't didn't eat them - she much preferred the cat food she got. She just murdered bird after bird and left them to rot. Cats certainly are not the best examples…

Are (aren't?) cats the only animal that kills for fun, rather than food? (Apart from the scum that are some humans...)

Lots of animals have been observed to kill others for no known or obvious reason; primates and dolphins are two I’m aware of. My working dogs would, too, considering they wouldn’t eat the pests they killed and there was no upside for them other than praise. That should count I think.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#149

Post by girvo »

zjaffee wrote: post #67
ItsMe000001 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animals kill "for fun" too. Not just cats (example: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2018-04-30/wolf-a... -- note: that was a single wolf, not a pack; and do you know what happens when a marten finds its way into the chicken coop? Chicken genocide).

Do other animals go to war, commit genocide, or in the context of our relationship with other animals, do anything similar to factory farming.

Ant wars and ant/termite wars are fascinating to witness.

Re: A biologist who believes that trees speak a language we can learn to listen to

#150

Post by saiya-jin »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #42
some_account wrote: post #23

Humans can't perceive a lot of things, and on top of that, we have egos that makes us feel superior even though in reality, we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. If you ever had a cat and really observed it and communicated with it, you know it has feelings and emotions. Birds have it also, so does pigs, horses... But we just ignore all that when it's convenient for us to ea…

> we are the only ones on the planet who can't live in harmony with other species. This "harmony" is really just interlocking loops of unconstrained growth, followed by running out of resources, and starvation while the food supply regenerates. It only looks pretty if you ain't looking very carefully. In fact, human beings seem to be the only ones observed with a capability for restraint . We're not very good at prac…

have you ever seen a jaguar let caught gazelle go, just because it's full? llamas restraining pooping only on specific spots to not ruin grasslands (maybe not direct example but I saw it recently all over Bolivia, pretty impressive environmental protection).

you can find abundance of examples of both restraint and greed/cruelty in animal kingdom, although it seems to me restraint is far more prevalent. Just like among humans

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