One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#141

Post by brewrwe » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

mncharity wrote: post #12

dajohnson89 wrote: post #5

One of the more depressing things to read, is how back in the early days of America, one could just reach into the river/sea and grab a fish. E.g. lobsters were once so plentiful that native americans used them as fertilizer[0]. And there's photographic evidence of overfishing too. [1] is a nice NPR piece about how the largest catch of the year at a particular spot in Florida has been dwindling. [0] - http://www.gma.…

Given that change blindness, I wonder if an interesting component of teaching history could be to emphasize 'things you would find jaw-droppingly different if you were dropped back in time'? Precise arrangements for where/when to meet ("at 10:10, on the corner of mumble and mumble") - because no cell phones. Boston Python, having an unusually large turnout... so someone needed to pull up an extra chair to the confere…

Hey, screw Amazon and their asinine NDAs, they've tried that same BS over here in Seattle on much less relevant meetups. All its ended up doing is killing participation and fracturing the group.

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#142

Post by sctb » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

ponzored wrote: post #64

waivek wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. If I was a native American a few centuries ago I would also think something similar. What do Europeans contribute to us other than killing of our loved ones and almost extinguishing our race. A ballooning European population is not good.

Europeans have been responsible for the majority of scientific advances we all enjoy today. Native Americans died from diseases and conflicts with a superior group of people. Competition for resources is a core driver of evolution and is nothing new for any species on Earth.

You post too many unsubstantive, inflammatory, ideological comments with a suspicious ethnocentricity. If you keep doing this we'll ban the account because that's not what this site is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#143

Post by jaggederest » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #79

Steve44 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes get a little irritated at some of the "save the planet" type arguments. The planet will be just fine, it's gone through a lot of changes over the years and will continue to go through changes. One example I often show is the sea levels 16,000 BC as explained here https://www.nationalgeographic.org/maps/doggerland/ by National Geographic. What is going to have problems is the health of the ever growing Hum…

The most charitable reading of ”save the planet” is: save those parts of the biosphere that might be critical to our long term survival.

The problem with that, though, is that you can't just saw those parts off and tuck them away. Cascading failure of systems is a global phenomenon.

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#144

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #134

TeMPOraL wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. My point is that just "being the change you wish to see in the world" is nowhere near enough for actual change to happen.

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

And too often ends with it.

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#145

Post by saghm » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 6:04 PM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #84

dajohnson89 wrote: post #5

One of the more depressing things to read, is how back in the early days of America, one could just reach into the river/sea and grab a fish. E.g. lobsters were once so plentiful that native americans used them as fertilizer[0]. And there's photographic evidence of overfishing too. [1] is a nice NPR piece about how the largest catch of the year at a particular spot in Florida has been dwindling. [0] - http://www.gma.…

Equally terrible is the same comparison about bugs, but it's easier to make people flip because it happened in our lifetime (recent and so fast!): When I was young, I was driving a small bike. Having mosquitoes or flies clouds was a common occurrence on the road and the best motivator to wear a helmet for a youngster not bothered by security. Nowadays, I'm still driving a bike, although a bigger one. But I encounter…

This is really interesting; growing up I definitely remembered seeing more bugs than I do now, but I kind of assumed that this was just because I've been living in cities rather than suburbs since college, so I'm exposed to a lot more asphalt and sidewalks than grass and dirt. Now I'm curious if there used to be more bugs in cities before I moved to them.

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#146

Post by anticensor » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:08 PM UTC

ckastner wrote: post #45

jaggederest wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current point of concern is that I can go out and sit all evening without a mosquito bite. That was unheard of even 30 years ago when I was a kid. You'd be lucky if you didn't have one for every minute you spent outside. I think the insects are dying, and it's frightening. Second item would be watching the bison migrate on the plains. Literally horizon to horizon, a hundred thousand individuals or more in a group.…

I never understood why such changes -- dramatic as they may be -- were seen as a cause of concern, except in cases where the changes affected our food supply. Humans may be responsible for the decimation or outright extinction of entire species, but isn't that how Nature works? Nature has encountered countless extinctions before us (where's the Megalodon now?) and at least 5 mass extinctions, so why should this dynam…

> but isn't that how Nature works

It might be how the nature works, but it is definitely not how Nature works. Capitalisation matters.

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#147

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:29 PM UTC

jaggederest wrote: post #14

mncharity wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that change blindness, I wonder if an interesting component of teaching history could be to emphasize 'things you would find jaw-droppingly different if you were dropped back in time'? Precise arrangements for where/when to meet ("at 10:10, on the corner of mumble and mumble") - because no cell phones. Boston Python, having an unusually large turnout... so someone needed to pull up an extra chair to the confere…

My current point of concern is that I can go out and sit all evening without a mosquito bite. That was unheard of even 30 years ago when I was a kid. You'd be lucky if you didn't have one for every minute you spent outside. I think the insects are dying, and it's frightening. Second item would be watching the bison migrate on the plains. Literally horizon to horizon, a hundred thousand individuals or more in a group.…

You clearly don't live in Minnesota, where the mosquito is the unofficial state bird.

I come inside quickly in summer because there are mosquitoes and flies all over the place. Doing fireworks with my kids last week, I was deliberately standing downwind in the path of the smoke bombs to get some relief. I'm religious about not having standing water around, our cars are covered in bug carcasses after a 10-mile drive. I literally feel mosquitoes bouncing off my forehead as I walk through my dark backyard. I kill massive deer/horse flies constantly.

If insects are dying, it sure ain't around here!

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#148

Post by lenocinor » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:57 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #33

cageface wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the appeal to futility fallacy and can be used to make an argument against doing just about anything. By not eating fish you become part of the solution instead of part of the problem. And the poor fishermen are going to be unemployed soon enough at the current rate of overfishing because there won't be anything left for them to catch anyway. The bycatch for sushi fish is even worse than the figure given in t…

It's not an appeal to futility, it's pointing out the reality of the problem. My marginal impact on the problem is negligible. The issue only manifests itself on a very large scale. Therefore, any solution involving "just stop eating fish" needs to explain a strategy to achieve this change of behavior on a large scale . Note that simply telling people on the Internet to change is not a working strategy - for each ind…

I've tried pretty hard to encourage people not to eat fish, using a variety of approaches (varying in intensity) over the last few years for people in many places. Nothing has ever worked, for anyone. People really seem to like eating fish. :(

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#149

Post by lenocinor » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:58 PM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #72

TeMPOraL wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just stop eating fish" is not a solution, in the same sense that one brick does not make a building. You need very many bricks, and you need a very significant amount of people to stop eating fish for the problem to be solved. Popularizing fish abstinence - now, that's an outline of a solution.

I think we just need to accept that a portion of the population will not follow these rules, and that this portion alone is enough not to reach the critical mass required to reach that solution "inflexion point". Even if I'm wrong saying that... how long will it take to reach critical mass? How much destruction will be caused attempting to reach it? Individual-centered solutions can't work efficiently enough for thes…

But only rarely do these laws come out of nowhere. People already practicing these ideas show that they're viable, and starts giving those ideas mindshare.

Re: One in three fish caught never makes it to the plate – UN report

#150

Post by FiatLuxDave » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 8:59 PM UTC

mncharity wrote: post #12

dajohnson89 wrote: post #5

One of the more depressing things to read, is how back in the early days of America, one could just reach into the river/sea and grab a fish. E.g. lobsters were once so plentiful that native americans used them as fertilizer[0]. And there's photographic evidence of overfishing too. [1] is a nice NPR piece about how the largest catch of the year at a particular spot in Florida has been dwindling. [0] - http://www.gma.…

Given that change blindness, I wonder if an interesting component of teaching history could be to emphasize 'things you would find jaw-droppingly different if you were dropped back in time'? Precise arrangements for where/when to meet ("at 10:10, on the corner of mumble and mumble") - because no cell phones. Boston Python, having an unusually large turnout... so someone needed to pull up an extra chair to the confere…

Is this what you are looking for regarding Christmas Tree Birds?

https://www.boothbayregister.com/article/christmas-tree-bird...