Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy • Hacker News Board

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#141

Post by thatthatis » Mon, Jul 09, 2018, 1:21 PM UTC

code_duck wrote: post #132

thatthatis wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fresh squeezed won’t be appreciably healthier (on the sugar dimension). What makes juice unhealthy compared to intact fruits and vegetables is the mechanical separation of sugar from the fiber water matrix. This makes the sugar all available instantly. When you eat the whole carrot, your digestive system has to tear away the layers of the matrix one at a time to get the sugar out. When you juice you remove the matrix…

Yes, I’m aware of that. However, it’s important to compare it to products that are simply water with partially synthetic corn syrup, which millions of children consume regularly every single day. We are talking about drinks, after all, and it seems somewhat absurd to be suggesting that anyone eat solid fruit when they want to have a drink.

I don’t think anyone is saying “eat fruit when you want a drink”. The point is that while fruit is relatively healthy fruit juice is relatively unhealthy, on par with sugar sweetened sodas.

Similar to how beets are relatively healthy and pure sugar (derived from beets) is relatively unhealthy.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#142

Post by thirdsun » Mon, Jul 09, 2018, 1:25 PM UTC

forapurpose wrote: post #139

phs318u wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair question. I agree that the fruit itself tastes nicer. I could say I want to avoid having too much fibre (as I get plenty from other sources), but in reality I just find peeling oranges a PITA and contrary to your claim I find it quicker to cut in half and twist each half a few times on a juicer (plus I can just knock back the output).

> I just find peeling oranges a PITA You know, I've almost forgotten about this problem. Buy clementines; they are a kind of orange which happen to be easy to peel. For more ease, at the store you can feel which ones have looser skin; it's no exaggeration that they are easier to peel than plastic wrappers off of processed food. They don't even make a mess - no dripping, no sticky fingers, etc. I can't recommend them…

No we only need a proper way to eat grapefruits. Love the fruit, hate the mess that is preparing/eating them.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#143

Post by oxide » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 5:37 AM UTC

kareemm wrote: post #109

JshWright wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wired on sugar That's not a thing. http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/sugar-and-candy-... (From one of the co-authors of this article)

Maybe it’s the environment in which I give my kids sugar that causes them to be wired. But regardless, the crash is horrible to behold.

Confirmation bias at its finest.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#144

Post by oxide » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 5:45 AM UTC

throwaway5752 wrote: post #74

Puer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skim milk typically doesn't contain vitamin A and fat is essential for helping our bodies absorb the vitamins and nutrients we consume. Plus, as a source of energy and calories, fat is much better than sugar for children because it takes longer to break down which aids diet regulation. The article talks about this, but the reason it's so easy to binge on snack foods like juice is because they don't make you feel full…

You called it "milk flavored water"

He said it was basically milk flavored water, when compared directly to whole milk.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#145

Post by BrandoElFollito » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 12:54 PM UTC

sm64 wrote: post #22

kareemm wrote: post #13

I love the strange looks we get when we tell extended family that our 1.5y old and 4y old kids don't drink juice. I had this exact conversation with a cousin of mine last week. She checked in with me before giving my child juice. When I told her we didn't give our kids juice this is how the conversation went: Q: "They don't drink juice? What do they drink?" A: "Water." Q: "Just water?" A: "Yep. If you want to get fan…

To add, the "no sugar added" thing is wholly misleading because there are fruit concentrates that companies can add that are basically sugar substitutes. It's technically not "sugar added" but it's basically filled with healthy dollop of fructose (which is worse than sucrose but I'm too lazy to cite a reference).

This depends on the country.

In France the wording 100% juice mans that that the liquid is directly from pressed fruit. No concentrates, nothing added. The only operation can be filtration and pasteurization.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#146

Post by code_duck » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 1:21 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #138

code_duck wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I am suggesting that people consume healthy juice to replace entirely unhealthy drinks or sugar in snacks which many children consume, not meals. And sure, if you want to replace a meal, make it a smoothie by throwing in some protein powder or dairy, and putting some of the fruit directly in the blender. But that’s kind of a different topic.

I think what's at issue is that parents are not thinking of juice as a treat -- they're thinking of it as something healthy for their children to drink all the time. In fact, it's, at best, a marginal improvement over soda and, because it does not fill them, will not serve to replace snacks.

I think that is true for the junk food juice which realistically, is what most parents will serve their kids. I'm referring to anything in grocery stores in plastic bottles, which is 95% of what's on the market. Filtered, pasteurized, made from concentrate, blended with grape juice, tainted with pesticide residue and plastic.

It is less true for parents giving their kid fresh carrot or beet juice, for many reasons that this article ignores because western medical orthodoxy is not interested. Vitamins, enzymes, healthier forms of sugar and other nutrients present in actual juice more than make up for the presence of sugar, in my opinion.

Of course this should be part of a truly healthy diet, which almost no parent offers their child in the US because they have no idea what it is and don't eat that way themselves.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#147

Post by code_duck » Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 1:24 PM UTC

thatthatis wrote: post #141

code_duck wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I’m aware of that. However, it’s important to compare it to products that are simply water with partially synthetic corn syrup, which millions of children consume regularly every single day. We are talking about drinks, after all, and it seems somewhat absurd to be suggesting that anyone eat solid fruit when they want to have a drink.

I don’t think anyone is saying “eat fruit when you want a drink”. The point is that while fruit is relatively healthy fruit juice is relatively unhealthy, on par with sugar sweetened sodas. Similar to how beets are relatively healthy and pure sugar (derived from beets) is relatively unhealthy.

I disagree for a variety of reasons. Fresh juice made from actual fruit or preferably vegetables contains vitamins, enzymes, healthier forms of sugar and other nutrients which make up for the presence of sugar, in my opinion. As for the filtered, pasteurized, sugar laden, pesticide tainted brew in plastic bottles that 95% of people and grocery stores consider 'juice', I agree that nobody should ever consume that, under any circumstances. I'm sure that is what these doctors are thinking of since they don't seem to mention or be aware of actual juicing.

I'm not sure at all what the alternative proposed for a drink is - water? tea? with no sweetener? I'm still confident that carrot, beet, tomato, whatever juice (diluted... like people normally do) is a better choice than just about anything with sweetener in it.