Founder to CEO: How to build a great company from the ground up • Hacker News Board

Re: Founder to CEO: How to build a great company from the ground up

#141

Post by tsunamifury » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #139

jcbrand wrote: post #133

> Agenda > > Spouse > > Connect- listen to each other’s day for 5 minutes each I had to laugh at this. Setting aside only 5-10 minutes a day for your closest confidant and life-partner? Good luck with that marriage. One of the ironies for me of people who slave away with the hope of scoring the jackpot, is that they often justify it by telling themselves and others what they'll do once they're financially independent…

"One of the ironies for me of people who slave away with the hope of scoring the jackpot," There are other reasons as well to work hard. Some people enjoy the prospect of potentially denting the universe a bit. But yes, if financial gratification and financial gratification alone is the goal it's a tad silly.

What you're describing is obsession and it can be even more dangerous that just plain old greed. However I find myself saying the same thing sometimes...

Re: Founder to CEO: How to build a great company from the ground up

#142

Post by irl_zebra » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:29 PM UTC

tsunamifury wrote: post #141

fsloth wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One of the ironies for me of people who slave away with the hope of scoring the jackpot," There are other reasons as well to work hard. Some people enjoy the prospect of potentially denting the universe a bit. But yes, if financial gratification and financial gratification alone is the goal it's a tad silly.

What you're describing is obsession and it can be even more dangerous that just plain old greed. However I find myself saying the same thing sometimes...

In what way is "enjoy[ing] the prospect of potentially denting the universe a bit" obsession? Are you saying that being motivated by things other than finances is obsessive?

Re: Founder to CEO: How to build a great company from the ground up

#143

Post by ErikAugust » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:30 PM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #139

jcbrand wrote: post #133

> Agenda > > Spouse > > Connect- listen to each other’s day for 5 minutes each I had to laugh at this. Setting aside only 5-10 minutes a day for your closest confidant and life-partner? Good luck with that marriage. One of the ironies for me of people who slave away with the hope of scoring the jackpot, is that they often justify it by telling themselves and others what they'll do once they're financially independent…

"One of the ironies for me of people who slave away with the hope of scoring the jackpot," There are other reasons as well to work hard. Some people enjoy the prospect of potentially denting the universe a bit. But yes, if financial gratification and financial gratification alone is the goal it's a tad silly.

Is a “dented universe” an admirable goal? Seems vague, and selfish. I get people want to make some sort of impact while they are here, but let’s also admit that that is driven by the ego.

Re: Founder to CEO: How to build a great company from the ground up

#144

Post by mathattack » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:35 PM UTC

shanghaiaway wrote: post #111

koonsolo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Blank has an awesome anecdote on this: https://steveblank.com/2016/09/07/working-hard-is-not-the-sa... "Our team knows this isn’t a 9-5 company. We stay as long as it takes to get the job done." “Let’s just wait across the street from your company’s parking lot and watch the front door." "a first trickle of employees left. I asked, “Are these your VPs and senior managers?” He nodded looking surprised and kept w…

American work culture, always trying to please the boss.

Not just American. I saw this taken to an art form in Japan.

While part is showing effort when individual output is hard to measure, the roots come from more than impressing the boss. It’s also respect to company and peers, and being available in case you’re needed by someone whose time is more scarce and expensive.

But FaceTime as the end result in a corporate culture is awful.

Re: Founder to CEO: How to build a great company from the ground up

#145

Post by gricardo99 » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:35 PM UTC

jcbrand wrote: post #133

> Agenda > > Spouse > > Connect- listen to each other’s day for 5 minutes each I had to laugh at this. Setting aside only 5-10 minutes a day for your closest confidant and life-partner? Good luck with that marriage. One of the ironies for me of people who slave away with the hope of scoring the jackpot, is that they often justify it by telling themselves and others what they'll do once they're financially independent…

>You can travel worldwide for a year for about $10k to $20k.

Or take shorter vacations for very little money. I’ve recently discovered the world of “travel hacking”. There are many blogs[1] that outline ways to optimize travel reward points programs and greatly reduce travel costs.

1- http://travelisfree.com

Re: Founder to CEO: How to build a great company from the ground up

#146

Post by mjirv » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:35 PM UTC

icedchai wrote: post #131

cncrnd wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is everyone disliking this statement about 8-10 hours a day? Excluding weekends, this is 40-50 hours a week, nothing outrageous. You're not that special folks, you have to work to get paid like everyone else.

The truth is almost nobody even works 8 hour days. More than half the time is spent BSing, coffee breaks, lunch, browsing the internet. Our culture equates presence with productivity.

This is key. I suspect one could start a really effective startup (while paying significantly below market for good talent) with a policy like "work six hours from 10-4 and then leave to do something that recharges you."

In practice that's what many engineers (and some non-engineers) would be doing anyway whether or not they're physically in the office.

Re: Founder to CEO: How to build a great company from the ground up

#147

Post by fsloth » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

ErikAugust wrote: post #143

fsloth wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One of the ironies for me of people who slave away with the hope of scoring the jackpot," There are other reasons as well to work hard. Some people enjoy the prospect of potentially denting the universe a bit. But yes, if financial gratification and financial gratification alone is the goal it's a tad silly.

Is a “dented universe” an admirable goal? Seems vague, and selfish. I get people want to make some sort of impact while they are here, but let’s also admit that that is driven by the ego.

I don't think there is anything wrong in being driven by the ego.

Being ego driven is not pathological alone and in itself and I think is necessary for achieving most great things.

What would 'non-ego driven' achievement look like? Are there any concrete well known examples of such a thing?

Re: Founder to CEO: How to build a great company from the ground up

#148

Post by fsloth » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

tsunamifury wrote: post #141

fsloth wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One of the ironies for me of people who slave away with the hope of scoring the jackpot," There are other reasons as well to work hard. Some people enjoy the prospect of potentially denting the universe a bit. But yes, if financial gratification and financial gratification alone is the goal it's a tad silly.

What you're describing is obsession and it can be even more dangerous that just plain old greed. However I find myself saying the same thing sometimes...

No, what I'm describing is a deep interest in something. Obsession is the pathological end of this spectrum but 'being driven' in and itself is not a negative thing.

Re: Founder to CEO: How to build a great company from the ground up

#149

Post by icedchai » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 3:00 PM UTC

mjirv wrote: post #146

icedchai wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is almost nobody even works 8 hour days. More than half the time is spent BSing, coffee breaks, lunch, browsing the internet. Our culture equates presence with productivity.

This is key. I suspect one could start a really effective startup (while paying significantly below market for good talent) with a policy like "work six hours from 10-4 and then leave to do something that recharges you." In practice that's what many engineers (and some non-engineers) would be doing anyway whether or not they're physically in the office.

Anyone with talent knows they can go get full pay in exchange for BSing for another couple hours a day and taking a long lunch. Easier to save that money and plan for early retirement.

We need to see a gradual reduction in expected working hours in the US. 30 is a good target.

Re: Founder to CEO: How to build a great company from the ground up

#150

Post by eeeeeeeeeeeee » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 3:08 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #47

I read the comments before clicking the link, and found myself agreeing with commenters who complained about this line: > In addition, if people are working less than 8-10 productive hours per day, then they are clearly not being as productive as they could be. I almost dismissed the book as a "yet another VC-driven, work-your-people-to-burnout story" but really, there's more to that. I've found it an excellent read…

Completely agree based on my experience as a CTO. I didn't agree with all of it, but there is a lot of solid advice in here without a bunch of filler.