Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors • Hacker News Board

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#141

Post by pandaman » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 8:20 AM UTC

iguy wrote: post #132

zeth___ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of Russians aren't Russian. As long as you speak Russian and don't look obviously non-white you can pass for one pretty easily. As an extreme and over the top example: Stalin wasn't Russian.

Russia I know least about (in my list) so I could be wrong there. Maybe it's more like the West than I imagined. But Georgia is kind-of what I meant by "if you come from the edge of". Are there people from Japan, or Somalia, who many Russians (and the newspapers) would unthinkingly refer to as Russian? (Not a rhetorical question!)

You are not wrong. There is confusion about the word "Russian". There are Russian nationality and Russian ethnicity. These are different words in Russian language but one in English and often confused (native Russian speakers add to that by misusing word "nationality", which, in Russian, means "ethnicity"). One can become a Russian national through immigration but one cannot become an ethnic Russian, obviously. Newspapers would not refer to anyone as ethnic Russian (русский) and use only nationality (россиянин) even for ethnic Russians. As for Stalin, he wanted to call himself (ethnic) Russian and it so happened nobody could object at the time.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#142

Post by fiblye » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 8:22 AM UTC

victor106 wrote: post #41

Anyone here know how much a typical (I know its hard to qualify a 'typical' programmer) gets paid in Japan compared to the US?

Having just finished a job search last year, starting wages in Tokyo range from $1600/month to $3500 WITH extensive (80+ hours) of "expected" (mandatory) unpaid overtime. But the $3500 is very theoretical. If you're not fluent in Japanese and don't have a reputation in the industry, you're looking at the low-end unless you're quite lucky.

Generally, your wage will start out low at any company since you're expected to stay forever and your loyalty eventually earns you a living wage after ~10 years.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#143

Post by distances » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 8:33 AM UTC

burfog wrote: post #136

jpatokal wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Japan's spiral of depopulation means they actually do need masses of people, and they're importing them too via all sorts of dodgy trainee visas etc to staff convenience stores, hotel front desks, construction sites, lettuce farms etc. It's just politically impossible to support permanent immigration for anybody but the 1%.

They don't need people. The GDP of Japan might benefit, but that doesn't mean benefit for typical Japanese people. Wages would be pushed down. There would be cultural conflict. Japan's unique culture would die. Japan is not in a permanent spiral of depopulation. There exist families who have plenty of children. These children will tend to do as their parents did. After a few generations of decline, the population wil…

> Japan's unique culture would die.

Not commenting on your other points, but think you're misguided with this. Culture is not something that stays the same and needs to be preserved; it lives and changes with people. UK today isn't the same it was 30 years ago, and neither is Japan. Trying to set a culture in stone will lead to some quite undesirable undertones.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#144

Post by weiming » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 8:36 AM UTC

cdavid wrote: post #140

baybal2 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around 2 years ago, I was reached by a Rakuten recruiter. I think, I should've given more consideration to the proposal than a straight refusal.

Rakuten is not the best you can aim for in Japan, at least if you are willing to live in Tokyo. It is a decent first experience, especially if you are young, but it is still very stiff compared to international companies, and salaries are low. I would advise looking at startups (disclaimer: I work and hire at one) or international companies like Google, Indeed, Nvidia, Intel, Pivotal, etc. Indeed at least is actively…

I know this is going to be anecdotal, but curious about your experiences with local tech talent. Do you come across enough people familiar with data structures/algorithms, or, instead, more people who have taken proficiency exams like IT Passport?

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#145

Post by xevb3k » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 8:38 AM UTC

weiming wrote: post #135

sytelus wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! That throws much of the western world out of the water. I'm wondering if there is any requirement for continued residency. For example, in US if you don't live 6 months out of a year in US then you risk your green card getting cancelled.

Can be away for up to a year at a time, or up to five years if you apply for a re-entry permit. Unlike the US, there is no requirement to maintain continuous residency. However, just like US, having permanent residency subjects you to worldwide taxation which may not be ideal for everyone.

And it appears that permanent residency for tax purposes and the VISA, are unrelated. So if you’re in Japan for more than 5 years you maybe taxed on your world wide income?

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2016/10/30/how-tos/lo...

If anyone has more information, I’d be interesting it reading it as it’s pretty unclear to me.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#146

Post by weiming » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 9:03 AM UTC

xevb3k wrote: post #145

weiming wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can be away for up to a year at a time, or up to five years if you apply for a re-entry permit. Unlike the US, there is no requirement to maintain continuous residency. However, just like US, having permanent residency subjects you to worldwide taxation which may not be ideal for everyone.

And it appears that permanent residency for tax purposes and the VISA, are unrelated. So if you’re in Japan for more than 5 years you maybe taxed on your world wide income? https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2016/10/30/how-tos/lo... If anyone has more information, I’d be interesting it reading it as it’s pretty unclear to me.

> So if you’re in Japan for more than 5 years you maybe taxed on your world wide income?

Correct [1], even if you're on a regular work visa. "Permanent resident for tax purposes" != "Permanent resident as in visa"

Interestingly, as of 2017, you're taxed on worldwide investment income like selling stock (with some exceptions [2]) even if you're there for [1] http://taxsummaries.pwc.com/uk/taxsummaries/wwts.nsf/ID/Japa...

[2] https://www.pwc.com/jp/en/taxnews-international-assignment/a...

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#147

Post by Bombthecat » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 9:22 AM UTC

weiming wrote: post #43

Bombthecat wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm interesting.but it looks like they are only interested in young doctors and researchers. Not in professional workers, at least when you use the Excel, or is there an other way to calculate the points?

You can switch between sheets/tabs in the Excel doc. There are three eligible categories: researchers, specialized/technical (like software), and business managers.

Oh thanks, opened it on mobile. Will check out again.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#148

Post by toomanybeersies » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 9:25 AM UTC

sytelus wrote: post #121

joshe wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pulling out the hacker part: 40 points for > 10 million yen salary ($91,000) 10 for a bachelors 20 for a masters 30 for a phd 20 for 10 years experience 15 for 7 years experience 10 for 5 years experience 5 for 3 years experience age 15 for And bonuses for language proficiency, working for small-medium companies that spend on R and D (startups?) and holding a foreign qualification. With the right salary ($91K/year):…

Wow! That throws much of the western world out of the water. I'm wondering if there is any requirement for continued residency. For example, in US if you don't live 6 months out of a year in US then you risk your green card getting cancelled.

Most developed countries run a similar points system for immigration.

The USA is unique in the fact that they don't. Trump has made noises that he wants to change the system to a points system.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#149

Post by jpatokal » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 9:27 AM UTC

burfog wrote: post #136

jpatokal wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Japan's spiral of depopulation means they actually do need masses of people, and they're importing them too via all sorts of dodgy trainee visas etc to staff convenience stores, hotel front desks, construction sites, lettuce farms etc. It's just politically impossible to support permanent immigration for anybody but the 1%.

They don't need people. The GDP of Japan might benefit, but that doesn't mean benefit for typical Japanese people. Wages would be pushed down. There would be cultural conflict. Japan's unique culture would die. Japan is not in a permanent spiral of depopulation. There exist families who have plenty of children. These children will tend to do as their parents did. After a few generations of decline, the population wil…

The tricky thing about depopulation is that it's uneven and has a major time lag. As a simple example, the average Japanese farmer is 67 (!), young Japanese won't do their jobs at any price, and no, you can't just replace them with robots. How do you fix this without immigration or importing all your produce from China?

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#150

Post by cdavid » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 9:28 AM UTC

weiming wrote: post #144

cdavid wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rakuten is not the best you can aim for in Japan, at least if you are willing to live in Tokyo. It is a decent first experience, especially if you are young, but it is still very stiff compared to international companies, and salaries are low. I would advise looking at startups (disclaimer: I work and hire at one) or international companies like Google, Indeed, Nvidia, Intel, Pivotal, etc. Indeed at least is actively…

I know this is going to be anecdotal, but curious about your experiences with local tech talent. Do you come across enough people familiar with data structures/algorithms, or, instead, more people who have taken proficiency exams like IT Passport?

I guess by local talent you mean Japanese ? It is hard to attract them as a small company, even today. I have some anecdotal feedback on why this would be the case, but I don't know how prevalent it is.

Otherwise, there are plenty of foreign engineers who are already in Japan, and that you can attract through various perks. I would say the issues are not unlike what I have seen in Europe: resume are generally not discriminant, except at the extremes, and you need to spend a lot of time per candidate. I actually do not care so much about data structure/ algos: of course I expect people to know the basics such as walking a tree, or why you want to use a hashmap instead of a list, but we are generally looking for the typical T-shape, and ensure people, especially more senior ones, are deep in one area.

Maybe the most challenging issue is that you see more diversity in terms of culture than Europe (and even the US dare I say), so you need to make sure you have a decent process in place to judge people as objectively as possible.