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Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

developer.apple.com

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Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#141

Post by Figs »

mankash666 wrote: post #96

The classic "Fuck Off" hubris from Apple. Their B.S. is getting out of hand. List of gripes: 1. Heavy handed regulation of app store: This needs intervention from regulatory authorities. Apple has successfully inserted itself between the consumer and producer of apps. It plays kingmaker, and very clearly promotes internal apps to the competition (recent ban of the Steam app is a prime example). It's only legal recour…

You're right that this is ridiculous. It's time that we boycott Apple for their hostile policies!

Stop developing for Apple products. Stop buying Apple products. Tell everyone you know not to buy Apple products. If enough people protest, they will eventually be forced to change.

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#142

Post by SXX »

beached_whale wrote: post #133
mankash666 wrote: post #96

The classic "Fuck Off" hubris from Apple. Their B.S. is getting out of hand. List of gripes: 1. Heavy handed regulation of app store: This needs intervention from regulatory authorities. Apple has successfully inserted itself between the consumer and producer of apps. It plays kingmaker, and very clearly promotes internal apps to the competition (recent ban of the Steam app is a prime example). It's only legal recour…

I would argue #2 has turned out for the better. Googles store is a dumpster fire of crap, malware, and knockoffs. On iOS there is less crap and less knockoffs and generally no malware. Steam link is weird, but I thought I read somewhere that they would have had to pay Apple 30% of in-app sales. But long story short is that I am paying them to curate the apps.

> Steam link is weird, but I thought I read somewhere that they would have had to pay Apple 30% of in-app sales.

Valve tried to explicitly disable purchases through app, but Apple still refused it even if it's would only do streaming.

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#143

Post by msbarnett »

amag wrote: post #56
coldtea wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Requiring developers to use an API locked to a particular platform feels pretty hostile to me. So like DirectX?

OpenGL is still an option on Windows, it's not deprecated.

It’s not deprecated because it’s not even there to begin with — Windows 10 doesn’t ship OpenGL by default; GPU vendors provide their own implementations.

Which AFAIK they’re free to do on MacOS as well, they just don’t seem to bother since Apple was doing that work for them

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#144

Post by Tloewald »

mankash666 wrote: post #96

The classic "Fuck Off" hubris from Apple. Their B.S. is getting out of hand. List of gripes: 1. Heavy handed regulation of app store: This needs intervention from regulatory authorities. Apple has successfully inserted itself between the consumer and producer of apps. It plays kingmaker, and very clearly promotes internal apps to the competition (recent ban of the Steam app is a prime example). It's only legal recour…

1. If cable tv providers can get away with disintermediating TV viewers from TV stations I don’t see how Apple is any worse, especially since I can still buy third party apps, but I can’t either set up or tune into an indie TV station. Amazon is a far worse problem with respect to books (and without any demonstrable user benefit) so good luck waiting for regulation here.

2. Again, you can use Chrome on a Mac. The App Store is not stopping anyone from using anything, it’s just facilitating certain cases. Microsoft installs its apps on your machine without asking you (and has an App Store). Don’t even get me started on Nintendo. Seriously, you’re complaining about the least worst (commercial) player in this space.

3. Clutching at straws here. No one cares.

4. You mean like OpenGL, and two other OpenGL things. Again, Microsoft DirectX is what?

5. Apple intentionally slows devices down to prevent random shutdowns from peak power draw when the battery has aged. This is a good thing, well implemented, but poorly explained. Apple has paid a PR penalty for its lack of transparency, and having them suffer regulatory punishment for this seems harsh.

Ok, I get it, you hate Apple. But unless you avoid all commercial vendors I don’t think you’re going to find someone that satisfies your peculiarly quixotic requirements.

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#145

Post by randiantech »

mankash666 wrote: post #96

The classic "Fuck Off" hubris from Apple. Their B.S. is getting out of hand. List of gripes: 1. Heavy handed regulation of app store: This needs intervention from regulatory authorities. Apple has successfully inserted itself between the consumer and producer of apps. It plays kingmaker, and very clearly promotes internal apps to the competition (recent ban of the Steam app is a prime example). It's only legal recour…

Instead of looking for gov punishment, make people change their minds showing this evidence of why Apple is sucking big time.

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#146

Post by patrickg_zill »

exelius wrote: post #91
patrickg_zill wrote: post #80

To me this signals that the Second Moribundity of Apple is nigh. The First Moribundity was the period in the 1990s when Apple was coasting on the DTP and Photoshop advantage over Windows they had, reducing the features of their desktops and not innovating. Schindler, a smart but ineffective leader, was replaced by Gil Amelio, a star in his prior field but unable to get Apple headed in the right direction. It took Job…

Everyone is coasting in the desktop / laptop market. Refresh cycles are like 5-10 years on PCs now, and it’s not clear tablets even have a refresh cycle. You can’t get growth on PC hardware anymore, not even if you’re Apple. So it goes into maintenance mode. Nobody even really sells desktop PCs anymore except custom gaming rigs and low-power kiosk boxes. Apple is all about mobile phones, the Apple Watch and air pods…

Approximate yearly sales of desktop PCs worldwide (all kinds) are 200 million per year... I can't find 5 year refresh cycles on any HP, Dell, etc. desktops or laptops.

They tend to refresh in line with corporate cycles, i.e. 18 month to 3 years, from what I see.

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#147

Post by mehrdada »

Figs wrote: post #141
mankash666 wrote: post #96

The classic "Fuck Off" hubris from Apple. Their B.S. is getting out of hand. List of gripes: 1. Heavy handed regulation of app store: This needs intervention from regulatory authorities. Apple has successfully inserted itself between the consumer and producer of apps. It plays kingmaker, and very clearly promotes internal apps to the competition (recent ban of the Steam app is a prime example). It's only legal recour…

You're right that this is ridiculous. It's time that we boycott Apple for their hostile policies! Stop developing for Apple products. Stop buying Apple products. Tell everyone you know not to buy Apple products. If enough people protest, they will eventually be forced to change.

Boycott Apple... and then what? What's the viable alternative? Android? No, thank you. At least you have some leverage over Apple by the virtue of being the customer. The competitor's business model makes it much harder to influence, which is hostile to the customer and their privacy.

If you think Android is really open, think again. Without Google Play Services and Play Store you are basically hosed.

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#148

Post by adamredwoods »

coldtea wrote: post #44
_bxg1 wrote: post #32

Ugggggh. As if graphics support on macOS weren't middling enough already. It's like they're trying to become as irrelevant as possible in that area. I could understand if they were deprecating it in favor of Vulkan. That would be in-line with Apple's history of aggressively pushing forward new standards. But by no means do they have the clout to coerce developers into their own bespoke graphics API that doesn't work…

> All they'll accomplish is further killing off the already-small presence they have in the gaming space. In the AAA game space you mean. Else, in the casual gaming space, iOS is perhaps the most popular platform -- and the new integration effort means all those games will be able to run on macOS as well soon.

Additionally, I don't think indie developers have loads of time on their hands to port their niche games over to a new technology. I can see Unity supporting Metal, but smaller platforms (jMonkeyEngine) will have a slower adoption rate, and in that time hopefully open-source middleware will come out to handle legacy APIs.

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#149

Post by kilon »

rock_hard wrote: post #123
kilon wrote: post #120

Apple killed Flash and now they kill OpenGL. Both incredibly crappy technologies that survived for so long because of their popularity. Nowadays Unreal Engine fill the role very well and can sit on top of any platform easily. Popularity wise , together with Unity have completely destroyed both Metal and OpenGL. Vulkan , stands no chance too. Unreal Engine is also open source and very easy to extend because of Bluepri…

Unreal and Unity are 3D engines, OpenGL is a API on top of the graphics card driver much like Direct3D...they are both very different things! Unity and Unreal engines are both built on top of APIs such as OpenGL and Direct3D

No they are not , they are both APIs. The fact they run on top of drivers is nothing impressive if anything they make a tiny fraction of the APIs Unreal depends on because it’s so much more than a 3D Engine. Unreal runs on top of Vulkan and could also replace both Vulkan and GPU drivers. API dependence is nothing special and hardly makes something so different. There is no limitation on how low level Unreal can go.

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#150

Post by drb91 »

bgorman wrote: post #115
drb91 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Apple investing in Metal at all then?

Same reason Microsoftinvests in DirectX. Lock in software developers and consumers alike.

I can kind of understand iOS, but it’s not like there’s a thriving graphical computing market worth locking in on the mac side. All major titles already use game engines. They’d just be locking out smaller developers who can’t invest in porting all their shaders: it’s not gonna be worth the effort.

Granted, this may also be true for OpenGL.

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