Young Chinese are sick of working long hours • Hacker News Board

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#141

Post by yakuza00000 » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:15 PM UTC

smallnamespace wrote: post #119

yakuza00000 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and I'm sure you will find ardent supporters of North Korea regime, Hitler Germany, and Mao's regime. It's not a uniquely Western trend to want freedom, voting rights, and justice. It's also not uniquely Western to see the regime party members get super rich and get angry.

Are there non-Western peoples who want Western things? Sure, the West has been rich and powerful and dominated the world for the last 300 years. It would be incredible for other peoples to not try to emulate the West. But I think you're underestimating the extent to which universalism is a Western metacognitive bias that other cultures don't necessarily share [1]. The idea that there is one universal set of rules tha…

> Are there non-Western peoples who want Western things?

you mean like Libyan revolution, Arab Spring, Taiwan and South Korean democracy, India democracy, Hong Kong protests, Tibet protests, etc?

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#142

Post by jarboot » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:16 PM UTC

yakuza00000 wrote: post #17

Poor Chinese Millennials. They are frustrated their country turned dictatorship. They are constantly monitored by the big brother, social credit score, public cameras that have facial recognition. Their words censored by wechat, and the great firewall. If they say something wrong, they will be watched and put on no travel list. There's no moving up the ladder; they're stuck trying to buy a $500k house with a meager $…

> They are frustrated their country turned dictatorship.

You're wrong; the majority of chinese I've talked to say that while it can be overbearing, it's given them more opportunities. I hear more things positive about the government in frank, private conversations than with most people from my country. This is a result of the recent rise in wealth. But just wait until that prosperity subsides.

I'n not arguing that there isn't bribery, censorship, or corruption. I think that western societies function better under democratic rule, but the chinese culture and political system is much different than ours. As long as the people are prosperous they won't mind the rulers, but once things go bad at a large scale the power will change.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#143

Post by onlywei » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:16 PM UTC

aurailious wrote: post #61

Sangermaine wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nice to see that however much America and China might be at odds, they can apparently agree on attacking their young people as lazy and entitled.

"Millennials are now killing the Chinese manufacturing industry!"

The word "millenials" as a classification is not used in China. Everyone gets classified instead as 80后，90后，00后， etc. (meaning born after 1980, born after 1990, born after 2000, etc.). Because of China's rapid economic growth, the difference in attitudes for someone born in the 80s versus someone born in the 90s is actually very pronounced.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#144

Post by kibwen » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:17 PM UTC

CamelCaseName wrote: post #133

patrickg_zill wrote: post #128

NASA supposedly found that its programmers' code quality dropped after about 40-45 hours of work per week. Scandinavian and Slovenian immigrants to the USA, working as coal miners, felt that 8 hour days were important ( http://collections.mnhs.org/MNHistoryMagazine/articles/52/v5... pg 254) and negotiated to have that included in their employment contracts. So is it perhaps universal that 8 to 10 hours per day is wha…

I'm curious if the 40-45 hour work week is cultural. Maybe if society was set up for a 20 or 60 hour work week, we'd see the same type of productivity cliff.

Before the 40-hour work week society was indeed set up for longer work weeks, and workers organized to reduce it. There's historical context for many countries given here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#145

Post by nebgnahz » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:20 PM UTC

It may be worse than 996. WeChat easily penetrates employee's life after 9. A message from your boss that requests something urgent, and you begin working again.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#146

Post by Consultant32452 » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:24 PM UTC

Joeri wrote: post #139

CamelCaseName wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if the 40-45 hour work week is cultural. Maybe if society was set up for a 20 or 60 hour work week, we'd see the same type of productivity cliff.

I think it’s more like 60 to 80 hours per week of “work”, both personal and professional. A society set up for 60 hours a week would have you outsource pretty much all housework, shopping and assorted chores in order not to burn out. I believe it when people routinely do 70 hour weeks, but only if they don’t have a personal life of their own that they sink effort into.

Back before the 40 hour work week a lot of those tasks were outsourced to wives.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#147

Post by jessaustin » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

campground wrote: post #126

njarboe wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is universal, evidently, is confirmation bias. From the linked page, "the quotation is spurious." I clicked on the link expecting the Socrates quote and was not disappointed. But, if you read the page through to the end, it seems that this quote was made up in by William L. Patty and Louise S. Johnson and published in "Personality and Adjustment, p. 277" in 1953. It was popularized in the 1960's to trivialize co…

There were a number of similar quotes in a recent review of Bruce Cannon Gibney’s book on Boomers: ‘And way, way before that, a letter published in a 1771 issue of Town and Country manages to sound laughably familiar, in sentiment at least: “Whither are the manly vigour and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fri…

Eh, whenever they have to rewind 400 years, it's a reach. It's actually fairly likely that "heroes" from battles so long ago have no living issue.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#148

Post by bjourne » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #51

1_800_UNICORN wrote: post #33

Very interesting article, but I was disappointed that the article stated that the millenial only-children of China are "outspoken", "pampered", or "self-centered". I don't believe that any of those terms apply to people who are fighting against working 72 hours per week for low pay. This is a case of basic human rights. The words that come to mind to describe the folks who are fighting this fight are "proud", "resili…

> This is a case of basic human rights. There's no such things as "human rights standards" for how much you should work per week. For most of human history people lived in abject misery and precariousness and in comparison 72 hours a week and most folks having all the comfort of modern city life is not as bad as it sounds like.

That's a myth. For most of human history, "working" 10-12 hours/week used to be the norm. There are still isolated tribes living as hunter gatherers and they are far from miserable!

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#149

Post by supertiger » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #121

avcdsuia wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collectivism is hard coded in Chinese public education, kids are encouraged to hard work and make dedications to their native land in schools. The gov make idols to worship like Jiao Yulu(焦裕禄) way before this working overtime issue (and Jiao died from overwork and liver disease) and making tv shows Touching China，a mandatory learning section for middle school students. With this premise it's not odd to me that critic…

Here's what my Chinese wife says about all that. People go to a monthly meeting. You hear a "sermon" and sing some patriotic songs. Then people go on with their lives. Not everyone who goes to church necessarily really believes. Not everyone necessarily believed even in the 1800s. That said, the social/theocratic hegemony of western Christianity wasn't all good, but it also wasn't all bad. The same probably goes for…

I grew up in China. What 'monthly meeting' (where 'you hear a "sermon" and sing some patriotic songs') is your wife talking about? That sounds bizarre

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#150

Post by thisisit » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:32 PM UTC

1_800_UNICORN wrote: post #33

Very interesting article, but I was disappointed that the article stated that the millenial only-children of China are "outspoken", "pampered", or "self-centered". I don't believe that any of those terms apply to people who are fighting against working 72 hours per week for low pay. This is a case of basic human rights. The words that come to mind to describe the folks who are fighting this fight are "proud", "resili…

I think each generation thinks the next one is the worse. I just hope these guys are not treated unfairly at their workplace.

Couple of years ago, I had raised staying late in office as a big concern at my workplace. My manager told me a story about how his daughter will not eat certain food items. He said he would killed to have those food in his plate. But now, he has to strong arm his daughter into finishing her plate. Next thing I know I am rated as a under-performer because I don't "stretch" enough hours like rest of the team.