List of screw drives • Hacker News Board

Re: List of screw drives

#141

Post by andrewla » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:09 PM UTC

magduf wrote: post #129

blhack wrote: post #73

As far as I'm concerned, torx is the only reasonable screw anymore. It seems like most construction screws (at least in the US) have moved to this. Just to make the point: I've stripped out more torx drivers than I have torx heads. I can say I truly don't understand how phillips ever even took hold over flatheads. Cheap phillips head screws seem designed to strip out. Somebody elsewhere in this thread made the point…

>I can say I truly don't understand how phillips ever even took hold over flatheads. Cheap phillips head screws seem designed to strip out. It's not cheap ones; Phillips heads were designed to strip out. It's the very reason they're used. The whole idea was to use them in factory assembly, so that workers wouldn't overtorque them. You put them in and tighten, and when they cam out, you're done. If you want a fastener…

This was my understanding as well, but the wikipedia article directly addresses it and say that it is a common myth with no supporting evidence.

Re: List of screw drives

#142

Post by Karunamon » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:10 PM UTC

24gttghh wrote: post #123

micheljansen wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has just remodelled an old house with loads of flatheads: you've got to be kidding me. I hate those things with a passion. Flathead screws only restrict the movement of the screwdriver in one dimension and allow it to move in the other one. This leads to the screwdriver to keep sliding out when you put force on under even the slightest angle. Phillips screws improve on this design by restricting moveme…

If I was in charge of these things, I would enact a 'Fahrenheit 451'-style policy, except for Flathead screws instead of books. Any of the other myriad style of screws is preferable to those ancient fasteners.

Agreed. There are two things that I feel should be destroyed and replaced on sight for the betterment of humanity: flat head screws/drivers, and network hubs.

It would probably even cause a measurable increase in lifespan due to removal of a significant stress source. But I can dream...

Re: List of screw drives

#143

Post by namibj » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #6

I was kind of hoping this was going to be about ball screws - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_screw

Rest assured, I was hoping for a detailed comparison and explanation of the differences between them and e.g. Roller Screws. Advocating for Torx seems to be nice though.

Re: List of screw drives

#144

Post by jamiek88 » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:15 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #128

agumonkey wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glue also fall in that case. It feels like a problem but more often than you know it's possible to unglue something. It just require different tools and knowledge.

What are the typical tools and methods to unglue stuff when fixing electronics?

Heat and a sharp knife mostly.

Re: List of screw drives

#145

Post by Ajedi32 » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:20 PM UTC

andrewla wrote: post #141

magduf wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can say I truly don't understand how phillips ever even took hold over flatheads. Cheap phillips head screws seem designed to strip out. It's not cheap ones; Phillips heads were designed to strip out. It's the very reason they're used. The whole idea was to use them in factory assembly, so that workers wouldn't overtorque them. You put them in and tighten, and when they cam out, you're done. If you want a fastener…

This was my understanding as well, but the wikipedia article directly addresses it and say that it is a common myth with no supporting evidence.

> Extensive evidence is lacking for this specific narrative, and the feature is not mentioned in the original patents. However, a 1949 refinement to the original design described in US Patent #2,474,994 describes this feature.

Re: List of screw drives

#146

Post by droidist2 » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:23 PM UTC

It's interesting that a lot of these variants were/are being created as security or tamper-proof mechanisms, a real world type of "security through obscurity" (although a different type of obscurity than is usually meant by that phrase). Then it becomes not obscure enough and they make a new type of screw.

Re: List of screw drives

#147

Post by I_complete_me » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:24 PM UTC

There's a lovely little book called "One Good Turn" by Witold Rybczynski subtitled 'A Natural History of the Screwdriver and the Screw' A pure delight for those interested in such things like me.

Re: List of screw drives

#148

Post by freehunter » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:24 PM UTC

slededit wrote: post #14

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even using the correct drivers Phillips head screws tend to strip. I have both drivers, and the Pozidriv screws seem to strip quite a lot less frequently than the Phillips. Of course neither strips as rarely as Torx, Allen, or Robinson. Hex bolts are also great.

Phillips screws are design to have the driver leave the socket if it is over-torqued. Frequently people keep going after this has occurred which results in stripped heads, but if you listen to what the tool is trying to tell you then it shouldn't happen.

>if you listen to what the tool is trying to tell you then it shouldn't happen.

The problem is when the tool is telling you the screw is tight enough but it's only halfway in. Or hasn't come out yet. That's where the stripping happens.

Re: List of screw drives

#149

Post by freehunter » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:26 PM UTC

Doxin wrote: post #81

jonahx wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2015/09/16/what-is-the-diffe... : "A Phillips bit fits in a Pozidriv screw head, but it will most likely cam out before the fastener is fully tight. This can damage the fastener and is why that cup hinge loosens up so quickly when a Phillips bit is used. A Pozidriv bit does not fit in a Phillips screw."

> A Pozidriv bit does not fit in a Phillips screw[citation needed] A Pozidriv bit fits in a philips juuuust well enough for you to not notice it's the wrong bit.

Yeah, I don't think "that's not phillips, that's pozidrive" is a good excuse. If they're that close, then pozidrive is just a non-standardard-complying phillips bit. It's the IE6 of screw heads, and the confusion is all their own fault.

Re: List of screw drives

#150

Post by Ajedi32 » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:27 PM UTC

magduf wrote: post #134

stephen_g wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve mainly had the problem when getting them out. Especially when the application requires thread locking compound and has been out in the field for a few months or years - even when they had been properly torqued with a torque wrench. We abandoned Phillips and Pozidriv completely and went to Torx for the screws (we were already using hex for bolts). Haven’t really had any issues stripping out screws since.

>I’ve mainly had the problem when getting them out. Yeah, that's your problem right there. Removing an old Phillips screw will take more (usually much more) torque than it took to install it, so it'll cam out. The problem is that you're trying to get them out. Don't do that. Phillips screws were never designed for removal that way. They were meant to be used for installation only, and to limit torque on installation.…

Unfortunately, if you're trying to remove a screw after years of service, chances are you weren't the one who originally decided what type of screw head to use.