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E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

washingtonpost.com

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Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#141

Post by NiceGuy_Ty »

cptskippy wrote: post #92
unethical_ban wrote: post #6

This is one of the most unabashedly sinister first-world articles I've read in a while. Microsoft's argument hinges on two damages: Either, they didn't get to charge a convenience fee to customers, or they were losing revenue by people unexpectedly extending the life of their computers. Foolish judges and evil lawyers putting a decent person away for 13 months.

No, this is an unabashedly sinister misinformation campaign by someone who didn't read the article or understand what this guy was doing. He wasn't distributing restore disks with refurbished PCs. He manufactured 28000 Restore Disks containing Microsoft Windows and was selling them. He justified his actions by saying they were only to be used on licensed machines. That's like me selling a backup copy of your Book and…

You can't just use a windows restore disk to get a new windows installation. When installed, it will ask you for your license key, and will not function fully until you have done so.

The only thing this guy was doing was making it so customers don't have to download the iso on a USB or CD themselves, and recycling e-waste in the process.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#142

Post by oldcynic »

pc86 wrote: post #81
oldcynic wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if their intent was to charge the other recyclers $10 a pop vs the $25 msft charged for the same thing? Not what was happening at all. MS charge Dell et al $25 for a copy of Windows Home OEM, complete with certificate of authenticity sticker and new licence number. "a Microsoft letter to Hurley and a Microsoft expert witness had reduced the value of the disks to $25 apiece, stating that was what Microsoft char…

As was pointed out elsewhere in this thread before your comment, you're also not allowed (as a refurbisher) to install a fresh copy of Windows without this media. The refurbishers are legally required to buy this $25 CD from Microsoft. So even though the $25 contains a new license, if they can buy it from this guy for $0.25, he is taking that $25 away from Microsoft.

The link to MS's licencing terms for refurbishers was added after my comment, not before.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#143

Post by danso »

larkeith wrote: post #75
emh68 wrote: post #68

Can’t blame this on Microsoft. Legal department probably said “these disks look visually similar to Dell disks, therefore we must press charges or everyone will start stamping out lookalike CDs and they’ll be able to get away with it by pointing to us not pressing charges here”. Blame the legal system, not Microsoft. All companies are under such obligations to not dilute their IP.

Could Microsoft not have pursued a cease-and-desist, rather than penalties of $299 (original prosecution) and jail time, if this had truly been their intent?

Microsoft sought restitution of ~$400K but was denied it by the judge: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2018/02/15...

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#144

Post by cptskippy »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #55

what makes it legal for an ISP (on behalf of an end-user) to request a microsoft server for the recovery disc download and then send this stream of bits to the end-user, but then illegal for Lundgren (also on behalf of an end-user) to request a microsoft server for the recovery disc download and then send a disc of those bts to the end-user? Is it because Lundgren is no ISP, or is it because the disc is considered a…

Microsoft doesn't provide recovery/restore discs for download. Microsoft provides installation images that require and prompt for a valid product key and license to use the software (except Windows 10).

Most OEM Restore/Recovery media do not prompt the user for a product key. They either have key/license hidden on a recovery partition on the machine, stored in the firmware, or hardcoded on the disc.

It's unclear how his disc worked but what is clear is that he was not a licensed software distributor and did not have the rights to distribute Microsoft's media.

If someone gives away 100 free books, that doesn't give you permission to make copies of their book and sell them with the caveat that only people who received one of the free 100 books could buy them. How is this different?

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#145

Post by jonathankoren »

monocasa wrote: post #60
jiveturkey wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he didn’t actually cause anyone to lose revenue. microsoft isn’t pressing charges against him in this case. (to my best understanding)

> microsoft isn’t pressing charges against him in this case. “These sales of counterfeit operating systems,” Microsoft lawyer Bonnie MacNaughton wrote to the judge, “displaced Microsoft’s potential sales of genuine operating systems.” But Lundgren’s disks had no licenses and were intended for computers that already had licenses."

I’m really confused on what a “counterfeit operating system” would be. The only thing I can think of is some Linux distro made to look like Windows.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#146

Post by scott00 »

cornholio wrote: post #126
scott00 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two stages of the legal process that are important to understand here: what was the illegal act, and what is the sentence for that illegal act. The illegal act was a copyright violation: he made and distributed copies of copyrighted material without the consent of the copyright owner. I would be inclined to argue that his use was fair use, but based on what I know about copyright law, that argument is probabl…

> (2) OEM Windows disks that Microsoft sells for $25. These come with a license (unlike the defendant's disks) but do come with a physical disk. I'm confused, what exactly are these, where can a private individual buy one? A Windows license key with (no media) is priced around $120, while an OEM license with no support is in the $50-$90 area, depending on the business relationship with Microsoft. If individuals were…

I think this is the price Microsoft offers to its largest partners. The defendant wasn't selling direct to consumers, he was selling to used computer dealers, so I think the OEM comparison is decent.

To be clear, I think the overall result here is an despicable perversion of justice, and I think US copyright law desperately needs to be reformed to include a more expansive version of fair use. I'm just explaining the way it works under current law.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#147

Post by shaki-dora »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #55

what makes it legal for an ISP (on behalf of an end-user) to request a microsoft server for the recovery disc download and then send this stream of bits to the end-user, but then illegal for Lundgren (also on behalf of an end-user) to request a microsoft server for the recovery disc download and then send a disc of those bts to the end-user? Is it because Lundgren is no ISP, or is it because the disc is considered a…

Law isn’t an incredibly stupid set of rigid rules thst are easily overcome by being grade-school clever.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#148

Post by joew42k »

justherefortart wrote: post #87

Fuck you US Government is more like it. Oh, and the assholes that vote these idiots into office over and over again. I don't care if it's Pelosi/Boxer or Inhofe/Cruz, they all are pieces of shit.

I fear you are encouraging people not to vote, without suggesting some alternative form of civic participation. Which means the politicians you dislike have even more free reign to subvert the will of the people.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#149

Post by dahauns »

mbreese wrote: post #54
monocasa wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The .iso was available for free off of their website.

Off of their website. It might be free, but Microsoft is still the only party who can legally distribute it (or OEMs that have been granted that right from Microsoft). Just because it’s free doesn’t mean the owner doesn’t have rights. (This is also the basis of the GPL.)

I agree with you in principle, but the copyright infringement itself was not even up for debate in this case - he pleaded guilty on that.

It's about the damages.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#150

Post by cm2187 »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #88
reimertz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might argue that repurposing old computers and licenses attached to said computer might have an (minimal) effect on Microsofts revenue since that might lead to potential sells not happening. That is the only reason I can see why they would pursue a case like this. But I cannot phantom how they cannot see how this will backfire quite badly, making them look both greedy and environmentally disconnected.

whats next? "Diet coach Daisy, sent to jail as McDonalds loses customers" "CPU designer Claire, sent to jail as its optimized caching algorithm lowers demand for RAM sales" "Louis Pasteur, unearthed from the grave, incarcerated as milk sales fall due to longer shelf-life"

More like filling and reselling old printer cartridges.

But these examples are not good because the value for software is in the license really. Microsoft distributes the binaries of win10 for free, it is the license they make people buy. So it is rather a weak case for Microsoft.

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