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Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

independent.co.uk

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Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#141

Post by michaelmrose »

downandout wrote: post #49
maximente wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what you've suggested seems OK technically, but i feel like you're making an assumption that originating source of traffic determines citizenship of the user. it could very well be that an EU citizen in Asia or the US is collected upon given your algorithm. if that's the case, are you not in violation of GDPR? but, at the risk of rabbit-holing, your suggestion would be a pretty fundamental change to how the web works…

but, at the risk of rabbit-holing, your suggestion would be a pretty fundamental change to how the web works. in effect, you'd be moving toward a splintered web, where content is basically region locked. I think you're spot on, but that was the danger of implementing heavy-handed legislation like GDPR all along. I believe that EU citizens are going to find themselves locked out of a whole world of content. But that's…

You seem to have complected extensive indiscriminate data collection with simple advertising and the more fundamental point of connecting and serving people.

You can use a combination of advertising and payment to fund services that connect people and facilitate commerce without extensive privacy destroying data collection. This model worked fine previously and it will work fine in the future. If anything hardware and tools are damn near amazing compared to the bygone past.

I struggle to think of any service in the world that is impossible or even challenging to replace. If anyone decides to take their ball and go home they will be replaced by a competitor who will use that extra revenue to improve their positions in other market to the original fools detriment.

There is in fact no reason to believe other markets including the US wont ultimately discover the merits of protecting their citizens privacy considering that in the US perhaps 171k work in the advertising industry out of 300 millions.

How the 0.02% can do an effective job without trampling the rights of the 99.98% is an exercise I leave to them and if they can't figure it out, then I hope the food stamp program still exists so they wont have to stand outside 7-11 with placards reading "will lie for food".

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#142

Post by zaarn »

gervase wrote: post #107
edoloughlin wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not discuss whether nonusers will be asked to opt-in. Curious how GDPR will change tracking people w/out FB accounts. IANAL. The only argument I'm aware of that data controllers can make for processing data without consent is if there is a legitimate interest: if the data controller needs to process the data in fulfillment of a contract/service. I wonder how this will play out for non-users. It would seem t…

"In order to provide tagging service to our users, a key platform feature, we are required to maintain and process data about individuals with which Facebook, Inc. does not have a pre-existing business relationship ("Non-Users"). Failure to do so would cause substantive harm to our service, and should therefore be exempted from gathering consent from Non-Users under Article 21, Section 5 of the GDPR." Something like…

Processing without consent doesn't work for multiple parties.

You can't claim that because you need to provide service for someone else you need to process data of non-users.

The users of which you collect data is required to be part of the service or contract to fulfill unless you have a damn good reason not to and "we need to provide this service because we go belly up otherwise" won't fly, IMO. A legitimate interest would be stuff like "we will make backups of our data, ensuring that deletion requests are carried out upon restore, to continue providing service in case of disaster" or "we will log your IP temporarily because we need to provide essential network and information security"

[Laid out in https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-40/]

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#143

Post by JetSpiegel »

peteretep wrote: post #120
schiffern wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange to disparage uBlock Origin while praising Facebook Container, because the latter is weaker than the former. uBlock Origin with either "Fanboy's Third Party Social" or "Fanboy's Social Blocking List" selected will block all third-party connections to Facebook servers, period. Of course Facebook can still spy on you via other spy companies, but the "EasyPrivacy" list cuts that down a lot too. On the other hand,…

> Facebook Container still happily connect to Facebook servers from third-party websites What? How do you open a non-Facebook website in the Facebook container? When you open external links on Facebook, from the Facebook container, they open in the normal container.

The like button on third party websites sends a request to Facebook servers.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#144

Post by _o_ »

_o_ wrote: post #72

This action directly violates GDPR, the consent is not freely given and as such not valid. Trackwall is not acceptible, that's why "freely given" is written in Article 7.4. Bottom line, even if you give them consent in such forced manner, they will pay the fine if they use the data. Not only that, I bet that in this moment there is a lawyer preparing class action against FB for forcing the consent (And they will win!…

Just to back it up, I have missed this in news, Max Schrems already tryed (with class action of 25000 FB users), but had no legislation to back it up, with GDPR he got the green light:

https://www.politico.eu/article/facebook-ecj-european-court-...

"Europeans will in future be able to bring US-style class actions for (alleged) privacy violations, instead of having to sue individually and expensively. It’s thanks to a little-known clause of the EU’s GDPR, which comes into force in May."

And maybe for non-EU users, don't complain about GDPR, back it up, you will give your legislators a powerfull signal and you might also get the protection of your fundamential human right.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#145

Post by michaelmrose »

downandout wrote: post #65
x0x0 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Per GDPR, it's the controller's (in this case FB is def a controller) responsibility to ensure that their use of data has a legal basis. In this case, since this isn't necessary for fb, the only available basis is consent. As for your havoc example, that shows nothing. If FB allows people to post image buttons on their site, it's FB's responsibility to ensure consent or del…

it's the controller's (in this case FB is def a controller) responsibility to ensure that their use of data has a legal basis You're correct. They are ensuring it by placing it in their terms for the use of their code/images on other sites. Nowhere in the GDPR does it say that every third party whose content may be placed on a site must themselves obtain consent. What exactly do you envision? That each page you load…

How about most sites don't load resources from 40 different sites. Alternatively how about facebook ask for the users consent once to track them all over the web and remember that users choice.

On ingress the data could be deleted if it didn't correspond to a user that had given consent.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#146

Post by michaelmrose »

downandout wrote: post #80
ntoeiusn43stot wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they say no, you have to let them use it anyway, without the tracking and without the storing. This is the part I'm most excited about. (Or would be if I lived in the EU.) I'll be very interested to see how that works out. I'd love to see something like that in the US.

> If they say no, you have to let them use it anyway, without the tracking and without the storing. That part of what he said is incorrect. The EU may be able to do alot of things, but they can't make me give you access to private documents on my server that is not based in the EU if I don't want to. You can simply tell them to go away if they disagree with your terms, or you can block all EU users from the beginning…

You can if you don't have holdings and offices in the EU and don't intend to travel there.

What are you going to do if the US adopts a similar law? Move all your holdings to mexico?

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#147

Post by michaelmrose »

downandout wrote: post #46
Sir_Substance wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might not be a great long term strategy, I'm expecting one or two buzzfeed-like websites to be put up against the wall and shot over this. I've always dealt with the cookie notifications by using ublock to simply block that element, I never click "ok". I've never had a website actually stop me from using it when I do this until google changed their search page a few weeks ago. If you're running a website with on…

I've always dealt with the cookie notifications by using ublock to simply block that element, I never click "ok". I've never had a website actually stop me from using it when I do this until google changed their search page a few weeks ago. I imagine that you simply won't be able to use websites anymore if you are from the EU and don't give consent. You'll just be told to go away.

"You'll just be told to go away." I thought that too was disallowed if the data you collect isn't required to provide said service.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#148

Post by zaarn »

kalleboo wrote: post #133
fuscy wrote: post #7

Considering that Facebook makes its revenue from ads and that providing relevant ads needs data and tracking, this move is not so bad. Users that don’t accept the terms or use various tech to block this, would receive misappropriated ads. Bad ads make companies lose revenue while annoying the users with extremely irrelevant info. This method should be extremely effective in removing false positives. Personal observat…

I would have loved to get properly targeted ads, but even with all of Google and Facebook's data, my ads are all complete and utter crap. Right now Facebook is showing me ads in Thai language selling me a visa to visit Japan as a tourist. I don't speak Thai and I already live in Japan. Facebook knows this . Why am I getting these horrible ads? The online ad business is just complete and utter bullshit. They have all…

I think the most basic and simple solution is to target ads not on the user but on the webpage and it's contents.

If the webpage is written in french (or visible as such) that reviews computer hardware, pick hardware ads first and if available in french. That is IMO a reasonable assumption to make and I don't believe that a lot of users will be mistargeted that hard.

Bigger publishers like newspapers could run ads depending on section, ie the politics section shows political ads and the weather section shows a raincoat ad.

The only downside I see is that localized ads don't work as well (ie, "local restaurant has cheap burgers" and "99+ women in want to talk to you on tinder!!!!"). Such places could put their ads on relevant pages though, ie the internet page of a local newspaper or the local communities' internet presence.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#149

Post by KozmoNau7 »

Silhouette wrote: post #86
ntoeiusn43stot wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they say no, you have to let them use it anyway, without the tracking and without the storing. This is the part I'm most excited about. (Or would be if I lived in the EU.) I'll be very interested to see how that works out. I'd love to see something like that in the US.

I have to wonder whether at some point the EU is going to become so aggressive that the big US tech firms really do start calling their bluff. Stronger legal privacy protections may be long overdue in our modern, online world, but that particular measure is transparently aimed at undermining entire business models that have supported services evidently valuable to literally billions of people around the world, and th…

They can still make plebty of money from ads, they just can't track users who don't agree to be tracked.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#150

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

product50 wrote: post #128
wolco wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More active? Really? The number of facebook user accounts never goes down with new bots getting accounts constantly but people activty logging in and sharing, posting or caring is down.

Yes - more active. You are suffering from confirmation bias at this point. What data apart, apart from your anecdotal experience, do you have which shows that sharing and caring about FB post is down?

The lack of self-awareness in this comment is astounding...
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