Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Move to SF and hate it?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 172 posts

Re: Move to SF and hate it?

#141

Post by evgen »

tptacek wrote: post #134
evgen wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original question was about the bay area and not necessarily SF itself. You have identified several downsides to living in SF, but few of them apply to the bay area as a whole. In fact, one can walk down the list to see that most of them are very specific to living in SF. * [...] fine dining in San Francisco is, if you properly exclude Yountville from your definition of "San Francisco", simply not as good as NYC…

I'll admit that I don't pay attention to opera and that you may have me there, but the Chicago Symphony Orchestra trounces SFS in every ranking I can find (CSO tops the Philharmonic in some credible reviews, so this isn't a fair fight). You also can't say "SF tends to fall down when it comes to plays" and then in the same sentence say "comedy is the only performing art that Chicago does better in"; Chicago has a vibr…

I think that in the midst of various edits I lost track of the point I was trying to make in that section about performing arts. I was not conceding theatre, just aiming to point out that there are some very good theatrical companies in SF and a batch of mediocrity. In SF the patronage scene seems to go like this: Opera > ACT > Ballet > SFS > other theatrical companies. I am not sure why this is the case, but people with bluer blood than mine have deigned it to be so.

It seems that in most of these performing arts rankings you have NYC at the top, LA a long way down the scale for a lot of things (mostly as remnants and/or supporting players for the movie biz) and below that places like Chicago, SF, and Boston fighting it out for third place in various categories.

Yes, you will see a better comedy show in Chicago, catch a better opera or weird performance art piece in SF, and probably hear a better symphony in Boston. Either way, I would say that SF is far from the performing arts wasteland you originally suggested...

Re: Move to SF and hate it?

#142

Post by evgen »

dzlobin wrote: post #105
evgen wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original question was about the bay area and not necessarily SF itself. You have identified several downsides to living in SF, but few of them apply to the bay area as a whole. In fact, one can walk down the list to see that most of them are very specific to living in SF. * [...] fine dining in San Francisco is, if you properly exclude Yountville from your definition of "San Francisco", simply not as good as NYC…

Seriously, other than Alinea you really don't have fine dining in Chicago Moto, Schwa l20 blackbird publican avec Those are just off the top of my head.

It was a joke :)

OTOH, I could easily put together a similar list of great restaurants in the bay area if you happen to visit. Let's wait until a reputable third party provides a basis for comparison before we continue poking each other with the trolling stick.

Re: Move to SF and hate it?

#143

Post by MC27 »

seldo wrote: post #122
nphase wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his version of "better cab service" is different than yours. You think of better cab service as being able to walk outside and immediately catch one. He thinks of better cab service as easily summoning one from his smartphone. (Seems like a very SF-esque solution to the problem, no?)

Well, I also live in the Mission next to Valencia, where it is ludicrously easy to catch a cab, though I appreciate that it's impossible to catch them in, e.g., Sunset, so I didn't mention it as an advantage. Of course, in London you literally can't catch a black cab outside of the center (they're not even allowed to do so past a certain radius) so you have to call a minicab. So SF still wins.

London is so well integrated that there's little reason to use a taxi. That's why you have to call to book one, because most people use them for unusual trips, such as going to the airport with a lot of luggage, attending an event with formal wear etc. Much cheaper and quicker to use the tube.

Re: Move to SF and hate it?

#144

Post by mtviewdave »

uuilly wrote: post #57
tptacek wrote: post #14

Spent several years in San Francisco. Hated it. Moved back to the midwest (Ann Arbor, then back home to Chicago). What don't I like about SFBay? With the caveat that it's been almost 10 years since I lived there, let me make you a list: * It's expensive. What that means is, you have fewer options on where to live, and the options aren't as nice. * Apart from tacos, the casual food options are much worse. Concrete exa…

As an SF resident I concur w/ most of what you're saying. For me it's not a deal breaker, but I can see how it could be. Almost every one of your bullet points can be explained by the phrase, "Liberalism gone nuclear." [Expensive] -> Rent control and Private property restrictions. Housing supply is limited w/ endless permits and restrictions on building additions or subdividing space. And rent controls not only creat…

>Rent control and Private property restrictions.

San Francisco isn't expensive because of rent control. San Francisco is expensive because the entire SF Bay Area is expensive. Rent control doesn't help, but there are plenty of places in the Bay Area that have never had rent control, and yet are expensive (and indeed were expensive long before San Francisco was).

Re: Move to SF and hate it?

#145

Post by justinchen »

tptacek wrote: post #132
joshu wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't had Dim Sum in the bay area that even approaches the best in NYC. Where are you going?

It was all Yank Sing and Ton Kiang when I was there... but I'm Chicago, not NYC. NYC dim sum may very well smite the rest of the country.

You need to come to the LA area for dim sum in Monterey Park or San Gabriel.

Re: Move to SF and hate it?

#146

Post by mershad »

ScottWhigham wrote: post #95
mershad wrote: post #73

The OP is just completely wrong about performing arts. The SF Opera and Symphony are absolutely two of the best in the country and competitive on a global scale.

Wait a minute... look at his quote: "* There are very few decent music venues. Among my many complaints about SF, this is one that appears to have gotten much worse since I left; read JWZ's blog on SF's "war on fun"." You mentioned two groups that are fairly specific in genre/taste. The OP says "There are very few decent music venues..." How does what you mention invalidate what he said? "Two" is a "a few" in my book…

Was responding specifically to: " It doesn't have a noteworthy theater scene, or (to my knowledge) excellence in any of the performing arts."

I was assuming by "decent music venues" the OP was more referring to a rock/jazz/alt type scene, because of the "war on fun" reference. I get that they're not mutually exclusive terms, but I would put symphony/opera in different categories than, say, a blues club. Sorry. I'm a conservatory-trained professional classical musician, and I'd say that most of my peers would read this the same way.

I also see that this has been commented about above, and it's true that Chicago's symphony is equally outstanding. My point was that SF _does_ have a "noteworthy" and "excellent" performing arts scene, found, for example, in its excellent opera and symphony seasons. Michael Tilson Thomas, additionally, is a "noteworthy" and "excellent" conductor.

Re: Move to SF and hate it?

#147

Post by wdr1 »

tptacek wrote: post #31
kbob wrote: post #26

Arrived in 1992. Left in 2001. Lived in a Sunnyvale apartment two years and a San Jose house (NW of Campbell) for seven years. I moved there for my career, which did very well. I largely hated the valley as a place to live, simply because it's too crowded. I have a low tolerance for traffic. I couldn't stand to drive to the supermarket, let alone go to work every day. So I spent all my time either at work or at home,…

There is no worse place for a 20-something tech person to live than in one of those South Bay apartment hives. If you're new to the area, please, for god's sake, cross Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, San Jose, and Cupertino off your list. Read Christopher Alexander; those apartment complexes will make you insane and sad. Live in Oakland, in a shared house in San Mateo, or (if you can) the city.

Having lived in one for 2.5 years (the Avalon in Sunnyvale), I strongly agree.

Re: Move to SF and hate it?

#148

Post by Psyonic »

tptacek wrote: post #31
kbob wrote: post #26

Arrived in 1992. Left in 2001. Lived in a Sunnyvale apartment two years and a San Jose house (NW of Campbell) for seven years. I moved there for my career, which did very well. I largely hated the valley as a place to live, simply because it's too crowded. I have a low tolerance for traffic. I couldn't stand to drive to the supermarket, let alone go to work every day. So I spent all my time either at work or at home,…

There is no worse place for a 20-something tech person to live than in one of those South Bay apartment hives. If you're new to the area, please, for god's sake, cross Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, San Jose, and Cupertino off your list. Read Christopher Alexander; those apartment complexes will make you insane and sad. Live in Oakland, in a shared house in San Mateo, or (if you can) the city.

I'm interested... what should I read by Christopher Alexander?

Re: Move to SF and hate it?

#149

Post by Psyonic »

lotusleaf1987 wrote: post #115
wtracy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in one of those "hives" for a around a year. I've been fighting with clinical depression, but I was already having problems with that before I moved there. I can't tell if it's made things worse, though it certainly hasn't made things any better.

I'm living on the border of Sunnyvale and Mtn. View at 23 years old, and it is depressing as hell. Absolutely nothing within walking distance that's worthwhile, no one remotely my age, nothing going on other than the farmer's market (forgive me for not being excited about it). There are some positives, but I had no clue how BORING this place was before I moved here. I'm moving to San Mateo or farther north ASAP, but…

Do you think downtown MV (Castro St, etc) is any better? I actually just moved to the area myself, but haven't found my own apartment yet, so this is quite pertinent for me.

Re: Move to SF and hate it?

#150

Post by Psyonic »

tptacek wrote: post #31
kbob wrote: post #26

Arrived in 1992. Left in 2001. Lived in a Sunnyvale apartment two years and a San Jose house (NW of Campbell) for seven years. I moved there for my career, which did very well. I largely hated the valley as a place to live, simply because it's too crowded. I have a low tolerance for traffic. I couldn't stand to drive to the supermarket, let alone go to work every day. So I spent all my time either at work or at home,…

There is no worse place for a 20-something tech person to live than in one of those South Bay apartment hives. If you're new to the area, please, for god's sake, cross Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, San Jose, and Cupertino off your list. Read Christopher Alexander; those apartment complexes will make you insane and sad. Live in Oakland, in a shared house in San Mateo, or (if you can) the city.

Also, I take it you feel the same about Mountain View? Anything closer than San Mateo that you feel has character? I'm working in MV, and I'm not a huge fan of long commutes.
Post reply on HN