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Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

nytimes.com

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Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#141

Post by cbhl »

TheBeardKing wrote: post #109

>The 2017 Monitoring the Future survey on adolescent drug use found that 11 percent of 12th graders, 8.5 percent of 10th graders and 3.5 percent of 8th graders had vaped nicotine in the previous 30 days. Of those high school seniors, 24 percent reported vaping daily, which the study defined as vaping on 20 or more occasions in the previous 30 days I'm sorry, but is [1] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact…

Yes. That means that in a school of of 360 kids (30 students * 3 classes * 4 grades), ~36 of them are now nicotine users through vaping. You may as well dedicate an entire classroom to holding detention.

The US was slowly reducing the number of middle schoolers who smoke cigarettes. According to the CDC, cigarette use dropped from 4.3% in 2011 to 2.2% in 2016. [1]

This would be a 5x reversal in less than a year. That's huge.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/yout...

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#143

Post by mrob »

013a wrote: post #107

One problem I think the industry has right now is the "gas station disposable" ecigs, like Blu, Vuse, Juul pods, etc. These things have massive amounts of nicotine, sometimes as high as 30mg/ml which puts the hit right up there with cigarettes. Combine it with the fact that they taste like candy and can be vaped indoors with no ill effects, and its a recipe for addiction. More traditional e-juice can range in nic con…

Seeing as nicotine is a known risk, but the carrier fluids and flavorings are a mostly unknown risk, isn't higher nicotine concentration better? You can get the same dose with less exposure to the unknown risks.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#144

Post by mrob »

billfruit wrote: post #111

To me, vaping appears to be a significantly less harmful to the body than smoking: vaping is just inhaling steam infused with nicotine where as in smoking the fumes of combustion are being inhaled. I also think with vaping there also no risk of passive smoking. I am in amazement of WHO and other health bodies dragging their feet in declaring vaping almost harmless compared to smoking.

I'm not aware of any common vape that uses pure water as the carrier fluid. They typically use glycerol or propylene glycol, so it's not just "steam".

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#145

Post by verylittlemeat »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #63
berberous wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm highly skeptical it's overall safe. You have all sorts of metals, liquids, plastics, flavoring compounds, wicks, etc. Some people try to select 'healthy' choices (like organic cotton for the wick); maybe that's healthier, maybe it's not. But then you also have tons of cheap devices on the market, made in China, with who knows what as the cheapest metal/fabric, and then literally tons of unregulated flavorin…

> You have all sorts of metals, liquids, flavoring compounds, wicks, etc Metal content is negligible unless you dry hit. No one likes that so it's pretty much a self-limiting problem. Flavoring compounds, though... there are liquids out there that contain diacetyl (a "buttery" flavoring). It's relatively common in foods, but is known specifically to cause issues when heated and inhaled. ETA: I just saw that this is m…

If you vape also consider making the liquid yourself. The base is just 2 ingredients and you can carefully source your flavoring agents. Making your own can be 50-100x cheaper than buying premade.

But as other people here said - diacetyl / popcorn lung has been known on the popular vaping scene for almost a decade now. Not to speak in absolute terms but I think it would be hard to find a retailer these days that carries any liquid with diacetyl in it.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#146

Post by corobo »

lemonberry wrote: post #136
reitanqild wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another benefit I've seen a number of times is that people seems to have an easier time quitting. (Based on my sample of The pattern, as explained to me and IIRC, was as follows: Started vaping insteadof smoking. Tried vape with less nicotine. Worked equally well. Tried with half strength. Tried with even less. Also worked. At this point it just felt silly so they just stopped. (Note that these where young people.)

I also think it's kind of a controlled dose thing. When one smokes a cigarette it tends to be the whole cigarette, whereas with a vape you can take a couple of hits, get a fix and put it down.

When looking for this I think it's useful to note that immediately after switching the amount of vaping can be huge. I was actually experiencing nicotine rushes and nausea in some cases when I first started

The problem I had was that a cigarette has an obvious stop point - it runs out - whereas a vape will go on as long as you have juice and power.

Over the 6 months or so getting used to it I've been vaping it's started to fizzle out. I know, n=1, but I think it's something worth noting in case people see an increase in nicotine intake immediately after switching

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#147

Post by 394852034 »

TheBeardKing wrote: post #109

>The 2017 Monitoring the Future survey on adolescent drug use found that 11 percent of 12th graders, 8.5 percent of 10th graders and 3.5 percent of 8th graders had vaped nicotine in the previous 30 days. Of those high school seniors, 24 percent reported vaping daily, which the study defined as vaping on 20 or more occasions in the previous 30 days I'm sorry, but is [1] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact…

I also don't trust these types of "surveys" that are usually based on sample sizes and extrapolation models that are unsuitable at best. This vaping thing is a phenomenon that is somewhat localized and clustered with a significant "explosive" spread vector. It's kind of like any infectious spread pattern or addiction/drug abuse spread pattern. You will see far higher rates in schools where it has taken hold, e.g., in FL and CA, especially in urban areas.

This is a "technology" that is very much like any other drug ... which it actually is ... that makes people physiologically addicted and dependent, only it's maybe even worse than, e.g., heroin, because it has a "cool factor" or "innocent" nature because "it's just water vapor" and "it's just glycol" that heroin really doesn't benefit from. What's the harm, right? It's cool' it's technology, it's "Science" (with a capital S for the cult proto-religious nature of the current Science cult). Best thing, we have absolutely zero understanding of its effects in the long run, let alone the fact that it creates psychological patterns of dependence and habits of self-abuse and compulsive self-harm.

In many ways anyone who is dependent on any drug, whether legal or illegal, be it nicotine, THC, heroin, Xanax, or Prozac should be declared mentally unfit and have their privileges curtailed.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#149

Post by lern_too_spel »

cbhl wrote: post #141
TheBeardKing wrote: post #109

>The 2017 Monitoring the Future survey on adolescent drug use found that 11 percent of 12th graders, 8.5 percent of 10th graders and 3.5 percent of 8th graders had vaped nicotine in the previous 30 days. Of those high school seniors, 24 percent reported vaping daily, which the study defined as vaping on 20 or more occasions in the previous 30 days I'm sorry, but is [1] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact…

Yes. That means that in a school of of 360 kids (30 students * 3 classes * 4 grades), ~36 of them are now nicotine users through vaping. You may as well dedicate an entire classroom to holding detention. The US was slowly reducing the number of middle schoolers who smoke cigarettes. According to the CDC, cigarette use dropped from 4.3% in 2011 to 2.2% in 2016. [1] This would be a 5x reversal in less than a year. That…

You're both citing the same source, but you're comparing 12th grade usage to middle school usage.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#150

Post by ghayes »

cbhl wrote: post #141
TheBeardKing wrote: post #109

>The 2017 Monitoring the Future survey on adolescent drug use found that 11 percent of 12th graders, 8.5 percent of 10th graders and 3.5 percent of 8th graders had vaped nicotine in the previous 30 days. Of those high school seniors, 24 percent reported vaping daily, which the study defined as vaping on 20 or more occasions in the previous 30 days I'm sorry, but is [1] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact…

Yes. That means that in a school of of 360 kids (30 students * 3 classes * 4 grades), ~36 of them are now nicotine users through vaping. You may as well dedicate an entire classroom to holding detention. The US was slowly reducing the number of middle schoolers who smoke cigarettes. According to the CDC, cigarette use dropped from 4.3% in 2011 to 2.2% in 2016. [1] This would be a 5x reversal in less than a year. That…

Couldn't this be explained by a substitution effect? The numbers from the CDC article discuss only the changes from the period starting in 2011 until 2016; where do you justify "a 5x reversal in less than a year?"
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