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Lead is even deadlier than was feared

theguardian.com

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Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#141

Post by tombrossman »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #129
justin66 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should treat the lead debris you generate as any other poison. (how have you been treating it?) As far as soldering safely, you should definitely keep in mind that your biggest health risk is inhaling burnt flux, and lead-free solder generates a lot more of that smoke. Lead-free solder is more dangerous to your health. There's some more information here (archive.org because I don't know where this is on the new W…

This is how I have understood it. The real danger in using lead for soldering, is not the inhaling of the smoke/vapors, but that you are touching lead and will later touch your eyes and mouth. Using lead for soldering is likely fine, but be extra judicious about washing your hands, avoid touching mucous membranes.

You can buy hand soap specifically for lead and other heavy metals. One widely available brand is "D-Lead" and it's common to see it at hand-washing stations at shooting ranges, where you are expected to clean up your spent cartridges (they are a slip hazard).

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#142

Post by ams6110 »

NPMaxwell wrote: post #75
toomanybeersies wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very hard to change anything in GA. Reliability is a much higher priority in aviation, if the engine in your car dies, you stop, if the engine in your plane dies, you fall out of the sky. GA planes also generally last a lot longer than cars, you have Cessnas from the 70's still flying with their original engines from the 70's.

Don't industries that require high levels of reliability schedule replacement of aging equipment, rather than continued repairs to keep old equipment running?

Not really in aviation. Even commercial airliners are often decades old (and as a passenger, you can't really tell unless you know what to look for). They do reach a point where replacement with newer technology makes economic sense, but they can basically be maintained indefinitely.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#143

Post by Stratoscope »

pault wrote: post #134
jjoonathan wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Tin whiskers" is the term to google. Makes for an especially visceral image search. There are many mitigation strategies, but lead was a miracle cure, and it will take substantial time and effort to approach its efficacy, especially on the multi-decade timescale. My guess is that companies won't bother. Reliability beyond planned lifetime impacts their bottom line negatively, if at all.

Apparently there is a brewery named Tin Whiskers. I would like to meet the founder, I bet we would get along. :)

Now I wish I lived near St. Paul! Not only is it named Tin Whiskers Brewing Company, but their beers have electric references in their names and schematic symbols for logos:

https://twbrewing.com/beers

I think my favorite names are Barrel Shifter Porter (an oak-aged porter) and Wheatstone Bridge (a wheat beer, of course).

It's worth a visit to that page for anyone interested in clever product names and visuals.

More background on their "Who are we?" page:

https://twbrewing.com/who-are-we

They even use circuit boards for tasting flight holders.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#144

Post by Pulcinella »

justin66 wrote: post #114
goldenkey wrote: post #19

I was actually pondering something related today. I worry about my cats' paws getting glass in them. Because the pavement is full of tiny pieces of glass, even worse if someone breaks a bottle outside, they won't actually vacuum and clean it up, I guess wind can help a bit..but it's just shuffling the glass around. Glass doesn't decay on a human time scale. Which brought me to the grim fact that there are so many sub…

> Glass doesn't decay on a human time scale. It doesn't oxidize. I bet if you find any in the environment (excluding freshly broken glass on the street and that sort of thing) you'll find something where the sharpness of the edge has abraded away. If you're on a beach or near a creek, you'll possibly find something that looks dull and round and more like a pebble.

Yeah it’s already oxidized. Silicon dioxide is pretty much at the bottom of the energy well. The only other place to go is for SiO2 to react with fluorine.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#145

Post by crazygringo »

hedora wrote: post #117

Sadly, there is a good chance your daily coffee was contaminated by lead from the espresso machine that made it (even current models do this!): http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/728315?Page=1

The reported levels are about double the EPA's treatment technique maximum -- and that's for water sitting in the boiler for 8-12 hours.

So considering 1) it's 2x, not 10x or 1,000x, 2) a double espresso is only ~60 ml, and if you ingest 3L of water per day it makes up only 2% of your daily liquid, and 3) for most people getting a coffee from a shop, the water will be sitting in the boiler for minutes, not fractions of days...

...it doesn't seem like something to worry about too much for most people?

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#146

Post by mmagin »

iN7h33nD wrote: post #136

Lead is still used all over the place in he USA. Its very concerning. You have to specifically look for lead free versions. Examples: * "fake" christmas decorations (trees, wreaths) often contain lead * Garden hoses almost always contain lead

A lot of these are vastly less dangerous than the use of tetraethyl lead in gasoline or other forms in which significant quantity can be easily taken up by the body (e.g. the old white lead carbonate paint pigment).

While it's reasonable to be extra careful with small children that might put decorations in their mouth, small amounts of lead in vinyl products (or more significant amounts in machined brass products) do not necessarily result in significant dosage in people who handle or use those products.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#147

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

jjoonathan wrote: post #115
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how much of it would still be alive if they had used tin solder? Tin ages poorly?

"Tin whiskers" is the term to google. Makes for an especially visceral image search. There are many mitigation strategies, but lead was a miracle cure, and it will take substantial time and effort to approach its efficacy, especially on the multi-decade timescale. My guess is that companies won't bother. Reliability beyond planned lifetime impacts their bottom line negatively, if at all.

Link for the lazy: https://nepp.nasa.gov/WHISKER/background/index.htm

Eugh. Yeah, connections randomly bridging to their neighbors is a nightmare.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#148

Post by mmagin »

pault wrote: post #135
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's easier. When I started soldering, the lead-free stuff was finnicky but I had nearly no problems with leaded solder. Regardless, you should have good ventilation when soldering. A small fan to suck smoke away, maybe even a mask, and take care to clean your hands and the area like you would any other harmful material (e.g. oil).

Does anyone know of any ventilation kits that would work in an apartment that doesn't otherwise get a lot of air circulation? I can't drill holes in the walls for air ducts.

https://www.hakkousa.com/products/fume-extraction/hakko-fa-4... up close plus a HEPA filter in the room, and you're probably doing quite well. Use name-brand filter replacements and not some random crap.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#149

Post by mmagin »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #29
Knufen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read up on BPA, drinking from plastic bottles and other endocrine disruptors we still allow in our food supply. As a side note, a lot of people think more quantity = more poisonous. This is not always the case as a small amount can mimic a hormone wrecking our hormone levels over time.

BPA and other xenoestrogens scare me the most. Men's sperm counts have gone down 50% in the last 30 years, nobody knows why, but the estrogens in our products/water/air aren't out of the question. It's scary how little it scares everyone else.

Also we vastly increased our intake of things like high-fructose corn syrup and sitting on our asses all day leading to "metabolic syndrome", which might play a role.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#150

Post by mmagin »

jibbit wrote: post #126
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #2

"Looking back, it seems insane. Bluntly put, we took a known poison and – for three quarters of a century – used it in machines that puffed it out in breathable form. Then we drove them millions of miles a day, all over the world, regularly dosing billions of people with the toxin." We are still doing just that, even though we are using milder poisons now.

At least where i live (which happens to be the same place as the author of the article), a high percentage of houses have lead water pipes so i don't think it seems that crazy that it was added to petrol

Mostly what I'm aware of in the US is lead pipes from the water main in the street to the house. A fair amount of leaded solder in copper pipe joints, but lead pipes in the house is pretty uncommon.

As I would understand it, maintaining a neutral to alkaline pH in addition to the chlorine/chloramine used for disinfection of potable water generally produces a fairly durable passivization layer on lead which prevents significant lead exposure in drinking water. Responsible water utilities deliberately prevent the distribution of acidic water AND do some sort of at-the-tap water testing program as well. Needless to say, in Flint, Michigan, they screwed up at these things.

(Edit, ok, there's a little more to it https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/education/resources/highs... )

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