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Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

economist.com

141–150 of 187 posts

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#141
post #3
post #2

One of the few things that China's governmental system had going for them was term limits for their head of state. This is a very unfortunate development for the world.

It was just a term limit for the chairman of the party. The party never had a term limit set.

Right, but the term limit became defacto when the presidency was merged with the general secretary position. Xi could technically remain general secretary without remaining president, but practically that is impossible at this point, so the constitution had to be changed.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#142
post #7

> The party hierarchy outranks the state one. In other countries, the ministers of finance and foreign affairs (government jobs) are usually the most important ones after the president or prime minister. In China, they are not even in the top 25. Neither man is a member of the Politburo, let alone its inner sanctum, the Politburo Standing Committee. Formally, the People’s Liberation Army is controlled by the party, n…

> Do large companies bribe the government officials or go through the party to get things done and how do they interact in general. For about ~15 years before Xi fully consolidated power, that's how things routinely worked. It was run almost entirely on a bribery to get things done approach, in the business sphere. Xi has moved the system/party on to new goals, with the business realm no longer having the same high o…

  > Xi has moved the system/party
Because Xi has circumvented several of the most important limitations (term limits, seniority) on party and state leadership, there is no system anymore. AFAIU, since Mao died, ultimate power was vested in the Politburo Standing Committee (PSC). Cycling out of leadership posts after two terms was simultaneously both the concrete recognition and reflection of where ultimate power was truly vested.

The bribery was an artifact of how power was shared in the PSC, and how the members jockeyed to maintain a balance of power. At a high level it wasn't corruption, per se, but the system through which the PSC members could exert influence when they weren't seated as the President, Chairman of the Central Military Commission, etc. It effectively operated like the checks & balances of Western institutions. If a PSC member opposed a policy preferred by the President, those backchannels to the party base and to industry was how they could push back, and ensured the posted leaders always had to acquiesce, to some degree, to the PSC members.

In as much as there was corruption, well that's the price you pay for not having a transparent system of governance with an independent civil service and independent judiciary without concentrating too much power into the hands of a (hopefully) benevolent dictator.

The problem is that all the senior leaders from the Maoist era are gone. The norms of the PSC were instituted intentionally to avoid the reemergence of Maoist extremism. This generation doesn't appreciate the critical importance of the power-sharing norms within the PSC. They think they can have their cake and eat it too: preserve the one party Communist system and provide streamlined, efficient governance, without instituting democratic, rule-of-law reforms. They apparently don't appreciate the fact that once the PSC is effectively dominated by a single individual, then the one party system is de facto extinguished--the party becomes subservient to a single individual.

More importantly, like many people they don't appreciate the fact that whether in democracy or single-party rule (which has a sort of internal democracy), some amount of organizational inefficiency is the price you must pay to keep power from centralizing. Maximum organizational efficiency can only be achieved in a dictatorship because that's the only way, theoretically, to maximally minimize transaction costs. But over the long-term history has shown that optimizing for short-term efficiency is a really bad idea and it tends to result in very inefficient long-term outcomes.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#143

I must’ve missed the part when China became a democracy. While I hold the same fear as China continues to aggressively pursue the Orwellian path, I seldom to see model governments that makes China second think its authoritarian decision. After all, I can’t envision other governments wanting to become US—-when excluding its resources. I hope we become better so we can emerge as the role model that we once were.

> I hope we become better so we can emerge as the role model that we once were.

USA is still a role model on many areas: cultural, economic, military, etc. It was never a moral role model, although that didn't deter the government of boasting about it anyway.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#144
post #11

I have a feeling 10 years from now Trump will be funny blip on the radar of how crazy the '10s were while Asia will be quite meaningfully transformed. I wish this was getting as much attention as BREAKING NEWS: Trump/staffer did something dumb. The (soon plausibly) richest and most populous country in the world will soon have a dictator. That's a bit scary.

Two things give me some hope. 1. I don't think totalitarianism lends itself to economic prosperity, long term. Sure, the right authoritarian can move much faster and implement beneficial changes much more quickly than a democratic government can. But that knife cuts both ways. 2. The entire government system in China, and it's culture, heavily values stability and collective unity (hence it's desire to squash and eli…

This is by far the most insightful and knowledgable viewpoint regarding this news I've seen online. And I am Chinese-American.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#145

I must’ve missed the part when China became a democracy. While I hold the same fear as China continues to aggressively pursue the Orwellian path, I seldom to see model governments that makes China second think its authoritarian decision. After all, I can’t envision other governments wanting to become US—-when excluding its resources. I hope we become better so we can emerge as the role model that we once were.

> I hope we become better so we can emerge as the role model that we once were. USA is still a role model on many areas: cultural, economic, military, etc. It was never a moral role model, although that didn't deter the government of boasting about it anyway.

Economic role model? Are you even serious?

US debt on 6th of March 2000 was 5.7 trillions. [0] Today it is 20.8 trillions.

And what USA has to show for the mere 15 trillions of debt?

Affordable healthcare? Free education? Absence of homeless population? Shiny new infrastructure? Thousands of kilometers of speed-rails connecting major cities?

Role model. You guys are delusional. Let me tell you something like non-american. The whole world looks at you with sheer amusement.

[0] https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current

PS: The only economic achievement I can list is that US elites have managed to alienate with their policies half of the country, so that half decided to give country a try with some real estate tycoon who enjoys to bang pornstars in his free time. Quite an achievement indeed. 15 trillions well spent.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what matters is whether China is following the rules it, and everyone else, agreed to That's incorrect. China is failing, to an extraordinary degree, to comply with what it said that it would do in being allowed into the WTO. Namely, opening up their economy in terms of full and equal foreign access. At every step, they've refused to go forward with that. As it turns out, most likely, they were lying and buying tim…

It's amazing how clear this is, yet so few people can see it, it makes me wonder if there would be less confusion if we didn't have two different cultures involved. Of course, Western corporations and their executives who are profiting handsomely from it have good reason to "not notice" what's happening and continue to talk their book, but the wilful ignorance of genuinely well-meaning liberals is more complex. I alw…

This is just how the state operates. It will never be transparent about just how threatening the Chinese are and vise versa. Ignorance is bliss within the world of global power dynamics. If you ever meet someone who works/has worked for intelligence agencies, ask them about China. Whether they will share anything verbal or not, their true feelings have already flushed across their face.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope we become better so we can emerge as the role model that we once were. USA is still a role model on many areas: cultural, economic, military, etc. It was never a moral role model, although that didn't deter the government of boasting about it anyway.

Economic role model? Are you even serious? US debt on 6th of March 2000 was 5.7 trillions. [0] Today it is 20.8 trillions. And what USA has to show for the mere 15 trillions of debt? Affordable healthcare? Free education? Absence of homeless population? Shiny new infrastructure? Thousands of kilometers of speed-rails connecting major cities? Role model. You guys are delusional. Let me tell you something like non-amer…

And to think this article was written in 2000: "Clinton Forecasts Debt-Free Nation" http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94572

And in 2012: "The Untold Story Of How Clinton's Budget Destroyed The American Economy" http://www.businessinsider.com/how-bill-clintons-balanced-bu...

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic role model? Are you even serious? US debt on 6th of March 2000 was 5.7 trillions. [0] Today it is 20.8 trillions. And what USA has to show for the mere 15 trillions of debt? Affordable healthcare? Free education? Absence of homeless population? Shiny new infrastructure? Thousands of kilometers of speed-rails connecting major cities? Role model. You guys are delusional. Let me tell you something like non-amer…

And to think this article was written in 2000: "Clinton Forecasts Debt-Free Nation" http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94572 And in 2012: "The Untold Story Of How Clinton's Budget Destroyed The American Economy" http://www.businessinsider.com/how-bill-clintons-balanced-bu...

first article was written in 2000. it talks about projections (!) of 2001 budget.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to think this article was written in 2000: "Clinton Forecasts Debt-Free Nation" http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94572 And in 2012: "The Untold Story Of How Clinton's Budget Destroyed The American Economy" http://www.businessinsider.com/how-bill-clintons-balanced-bu...

first article was written in 2000. it talks about projections (!) of 2001 budget.

Thanks, messed the years. Corrected.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#150
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the US does it doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make it any less concerning for the other countries in the region. Moral relativism isn't a good defense.

It's a lot worse than that. The US has been a superpower for ~75 years. In that time, the US hasn't been annexing territory in Latin America (and yes, the US is guilty of repeatedly meddling in the affairs of nations in Latin America, and it deserves all the flack it gets for it). The Monroe Doctrine for example has never included a drive to conquer Latin America and annex it. That doctrine is about driving out Europ…

Not the best examples. The US entertained annexing Canada and did annex large swathes of Mexico (not in the last 75 years, true, if you want to arbitrarily draw the line there). China has plenty of stable agreed borders with weak and troubled neighbors. You have your rose colored views but they are somewhat laughable.
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