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How much money do people need to be happy?

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Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#141

Post by ToJans »

Qwertious wrote: post #95
dreamfactored wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a level you can contribute to by being frugal. It's tough to get to but easier than you'd think. The barriers to moving to this level tend to be as much social and psychological as financial e.g. families, mortgages, need for security. The next level above financial independence is financial freedom (you can just get whatever you want, from shoes to houses) - off the top of my head I would guess this is probab…

>That's a level you can contribute to by being frugal. J suspect that ceteris paribus, being frugal reduces happiness - by definition, it's not getting things you want to get.

"the chase is better than the catch"

Once you can afford something that was way out of reach before, you buy it and after the first few moments you realize it is not as great as you expected. Do this a few times, and you'll learn what is important. The more wealthy people I know do have a slightly above average car and house, but IME the biggest difference is that they have far more extreme - both in amount and in price - experiences, i.e. weekend trips, fine wining and dining etc.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#142

Post by onion2k »

cortesoft wrote: post #23
Nition wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect there is another level above that at financial independence, where you have enough wealth that you don't have to work. Where you can lose the fear of losing your job, or go off and work on what you want even if it doesn't make much or any money.

There might be a fine line there; humans need a sense of purpose, and for many people, purpose is tied up in our job. If you no longer have to work, and you choose not to work because your current job isn't ideal, it can be hard to get the motivation to search for a new job. At the same time, without work, it can be hard to find purpose. So you might be stuck in a situation where you aren't working and struggling to…

for many people, purpose is tied up in our job

That's certainly the line that society wants people to believe. A lot of people want a job that gives them a sense of purpose, but I'd be surprised if as much as 2% of the workforce think their job gives them a sense of purpose right now. I think we're just lucky that the majority of people don't question whether or not their job is ultimately necessary, and choose not to bother when they realise it's a waste of time.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#143

Post by flukus »

mac01021 wrote: post #115
Density wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you hate and why can't you automate it?

Seriously? Cooking, cleaning the house, mowing the lawn, driving to places, filling out tax returns, shopping for clothes or household goods.... Fully automated solutions for any of the above either do not exist or are prohibitively expensive.

How many of those do you hate simply because you're time poor? If other necessities were met so you didn't have to work would you still hate them?

I'd still hate the tax returns, but others like cooking and mowing I enjoy when I'm free of time constraints.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#145

Post by mherrmann »

tachyoff wrote: post #125
matte_black wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should it be any higher? Raise the baseline too high and you may never reach it, and never be happy, despite having a good life. Is that what you want?

> Why should it be any higher? Because it can be. Because we’re the richest country in the world and yet for some reason we force people into bankruptcy because they didn’t have health insurance on the day they had a medical emergency. I want: 1. People not to have to worry about seeing a doctor because they can’t afford it. 2. People not to have to worry about having shelter. 3. People not to have to worry about whe…

> Because we’re the richest country in the world

Are you? When I just Googled "richest country in the world", not a single result placed the US in #1.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#146

Post by monkeyfoop »

antisthenes wrote: post #57
monkeyfoop wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true that massive debt could do that. However, it depends on what the debt is for. If the debt is for a huge mortgage owning a 10 unit apartment building, but you are making a couple hundred bucks a month in net profit... then you do not feel pressure as compared to someone who took out a 30k loan to build a swimming pool. These discussions about "income" are so skewed towards a certain type of income, namely w…

They're skewed towards wage income, because that's how the majority of people in this country make their living, so it's automatically more relevant. Just because 1-2% of people make their ends meet with their wealth working for them doesn't mean their presence requires them to be represented with equal weight in research. Not sure how this isn't self-evident to you. > The people conducting these studies have their o…

I never said government is bad.

But income tax is theft. If you do not pay our overseers, then you are at the wrong end of a gun or the otherwise of a steel cage.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#147

Post by monkeyfoop »

dgacmu wrote: post #50
monkeyfoop wrote: post #5

Let's ask all the employment wage slaves how happy they are and then conclude that they do not become happier above 105k based on self report. What a joke. A person making 500k or more or someone with high net worth is going to have a more full life (not needing to work, help community, help family)

You say this, but you offer no evidence to contradict the study, which is based on ... evidence that you're wrong. But think about it: A single person making $105k is just touching the top 10% of income earners in the US: https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/ Having spent some time in about that bracket in an average cost-of-living area (earned slightly more, but I'd spent the previous few years being a bro…

You felt rich at 105k?

We're talking about human happiness, the capacity for love, freedom, and self actualization. Happiness.

We're not talking about buying overpriced liabilities such as fancy cars, furniture and clothes.

I make over 150k and it's awful working 160 hours a month.

Think about why this study is messed up:

Wage earners spend the Best part of day typically indoors, taking orders from another person.

Wage earners send their children to be taken care of by strangers.

Wage earners send their kids to the zombie factory (public schools)

The fact is that someone with a few million can:

- take care of their own children/babies - educate their own children - take care of their aging parents - take care of sick relatives - can explore the world

Don't tell me that having 2M in the bank will not make you, your family, and neighborhood FAR "happier" than someone making 300k in wage slavery.

I can tell you for a FACT that making that much money (millions) will objectively lead to higher quality of life for people and their families.

I'm personally working hard now to accumulate several investment properties and live free for life so that I can retire before 40 so that:

- I can raise my kids - help parents, family, friends - explore world and learn - focus all my free time on healthy living - get best medical treatments

You damn right it will make me happier to be able to do yoga 3 times a day, raising my kids and also building cool shit without Having to answer to a boss.

You know it's true that lots of money makes you immeasurably more fulfilled. Don't listen to socialist lies that you only need some bullshit 105k (<75k after tax)

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#148

Post by thrav »

tachyoff wrote: post #106
ChuckMcM wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not be surprised if you were exactly right with this: I would say that having no debt, or at least having manageable debt, along with knowing you are saving enough for retirement, and making enough that you don't have to second-guess if you can afford every purchase you make, is the real cutoff. Many people I have talked with about happiness are really talking about non-anxiety. Basically defining being 'happ…

What a sad indictment of modern American life that our baseline for happiness is "not destitute". Really, I think that's telling, and as a millennial with lots of student loan debt and friends in a similar boat, it's not surprising one bit.

It’s why the Danish are always ranked the happiest. They know the government won’t let them become destitute.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#149

Post by odammit »

mherrmann wrote: post #145
tachyoff wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should it be any higher? Because it can be. Because we’re the richest country in the world and yet for some reason we force people into bankruptcy because they didn’t have health insurance on the day they had a medical emergency. I want: 1. People not to have to worry about seeing a doctor because they can’t afford it. 2. People not to have to worry about having shelter. 3. People not to have to worry about whe…

> Because we’re the richest country in the world Are you? When I just Googled "richest country in the world", not a single result placed the US in #1.

I assumed they meant largest economy?

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#150

Post by uiri »

mherrmann wrote: post #145
tachyoff wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should it be any higher? Because it can be. Because we’re the richest country in the world and yet for some reason we force people into bankruptcy because they didn’t have health insurance on the day they had a medical emergency. I want: 1. People not to have to worry about seeing a doctor because they can’t afford it. 2. People not to have to worry about having shelter. 3. People not to have to worry about whe…

> Because we’re the richest country in the world Are you? When I just Googled "richest country in the world", not a single result placed the US in #1.

Yeah, I don' think that statement holds up to scrutiny at all.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the median salary in the US was higher than the median salary in Luxembourg/Ireland/Singapore/Brunei/oil-rich-middle-east. Along with a lower tax burden resulting in higher net pay.

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