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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#141

Post by rainbowmverse »

chillwaves wrote: post #60
nodesocket wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nashville as you know is actually pretty liberal, but the biggest difference is that people here live their lives, are friendly to others, and that southern charm is a real thing. People in San Francisco are always so outraged and angry (mainly since Trump took office) and the media constantly feeds them things to be outraged about that they are perpetually angry. People in Nashville for the most part don't let polit…

The media "feeds" us stuff to be outraged about? You mean factually reporting the news? There is real and severe damage that is happening to our country and our standing in the world. The regressive politics will have consequences. Even if you are a fan of Trump's policies, the White House is chaos, we essentially do not have a president. Imagine a real crisis hitting, and what this White House would do. It's incredi…

>> Imagine a real crisis hitting, and what this White House would do.

Like, for example, the flu season becoming a crisis because key medical manufacturers were devastated by a hurricane and found limited support from a government that barely realizes Puerto Rico is part of the US, much less that its industries are so essential.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#142

Post by jstewartmobile »

dang wrote: post #116
jstewartmobile wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more a case of everyone being so entrenched in ideological warfare that we've moved from discussion to brand management--downvoting wrongthink rather than engaging with it.

I'm not sure if I was clear earlier, but the simplest explanation for why you get downvoted is that you have a history of posting flamebait. When an account does enough of this it gets subject to software penalties as well. If you want to commit to using HN as intended, which means scrupulously avoiding flamebait, snark, flamewars, name-calling, and all the rest of it—then you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com a…

I don't know what the averages are, but reviewing my comment history, seems to be more upvotes than downvotes.

I don't post comments on HN to stir the pot. I post comments on HN in the hope of getting other perspectives. A comment with a downvote and a reply is more valuable than a comment with upvotes and no replies. It's not like I can redeem HN points for cash and prizes.

I think I can do an OK job of not being an asshole, but I honestly have no idea what is or isn't going to piss people off or classify as flamebait here. So, if those are the stakes now, I will just have to accept my place on the shitlist.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#144

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mrgordon wrote: post #135

I feel alienated by the awful beliefs and behavior of Peter Thiel and his portfolio companies. Now many people can breathe a sigh of relief that someone who wields billions to support Palantir, Trump, and spurious lawsuits will finally leave us alone.

> will finally leave us alone

He’s not even leaving the state. Branding his move as political exodus is marketing for his China-oriented fundraising, a capital source better serviced from Los Angeles than San Francisco.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#145

Post by grzm »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #107
dang wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every side thinks HN is dominated by the opposite side. This is as reliable as clockwork. But the truth is boringly tautological: on divisive issues, the community is divided, like any sufficient sample of society at large would be. People with strong views simply notice the comments they dislike much more strongly. And sometimes they pass around links to their friends to 'prove' it—which proves nothing, of course, b…

I think it's more a case of everyone being so entrenched in ideological warfare that we've moved from discussion to brand management--downvoting wrongthink rather than engaging with it.

I think we share some similar concerns. I’m trying to focus on what can be done to improve the situation, rather than just noting it. Rather than complaining about wrongthink, what can you do to move the needle in a constructive way? No one likes being accused of collaborating with the Brave New World, and are unlikely to think they actually are doing so: rare enough is real-world self-realization displayed in Mitchell and Webb’s “Are we the baddies?”, much less when we’re on the defensive.

We’ve got to figure our way out of this, all around. Even more so to tackle issues like those addressed in the submission and so clearly on display in this thread as well. An early comment lamented the current situation:

> ”Hopefully we're still at the point where we can sensibly discuss a WSJ article.”

Well, maybe not it we just complain about it rather than making contributions that make the situation better. Of course it’s important to note that there’s an issue. (Bad analogy imminent!) Bug reports are necessary. At the end of the day we’ve got to dig in and fix those bugs and close the tickets, and make the system more robust.

A confounding twist with the system we’re working on makes it hard for us to disentangle beliefs from behaviors. It’s too easy to conflate the bad behavior of those we disagree with from their beliefs. And sometimes they are guilty of bad behavior. And we also need to realize that we ourselves might be guilty of behaving badly, and work on improving that so we can be more effective in understanding and be understood.

And I’ve increasingly tried to keep in mind that there are some games we play to win, and others we play to keep playing: Discourse in the small and society in the large is most definitely the latter. The goal is not to defeat our opponents, however they may be defined: it’s to figure out how to effectively make the game better. And like any rule change, everyone needs to be persuaded that the new rules are are a good idea.

I encourage you to work on some of the open tickets. Pull requests welcome!

(Thanks for your patience. Please accept the analogies only as far as they work and are useful.)

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#146

Post by friedman23 »

wpietri wrote: post #78

> they feel people there are resistant to different social values and political ideologies This is just bizarre to to me. I moved here from the Midwest, which I found stifling. There's a far greater variety of social values and political ideologies (not to mention backgrounds and interests) here than pretty much any place I've lived. The main hostility I see is to intolerance, but that's hardly surprising given SF's…

> This is just bizarre to to me. I moved here from the Midwest, which I found stifling. There's a far greater variety of social values and political ideologies

Really? Because the only values I've heard expressed have been standard democratic talking points and once in a while far left ideologies.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#147

Post by dna_polymerase »

wpietri wrote: post #78

> they feel people there are resistant to different social values and political ideologies This is just bizarre to to me. I moved here from the Midwest, which I found stifling. There's a far greater variety of social values and political ideologies (not to mention backgrounds and interests) here than pretty much any place I've lived. The main hostility I see is to intolerance, but that's hardly surprising given SF's…

Paradox of tolerance, huh? Being intolerant towards the 'intolerant' while still claiming to be tolerant? That's exactly the kind of crap that made Thiel and Altman making such strong arguments towards the culture in the valley.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#148

Post by city41 »

andybak wrote: post #3

Rather worryingly this got flagged and killed. Hopefully we're still at the point where we can sensibly discuss a WSJ article.

I'm unable to sensibly discuss a WSJ article because I am not willing to pay to read it. Where does HN stand on pay to read articles? I didn't flag it btw.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#149

Post by pfarnsworth »

sho wrote: post #46

What is crazy about the the situation in SF is that even 5 or so years ago if you asked me what the "echo chamber" there was echoing I would have said libertarianism and some kind of techno-utopianism. The takeover by the proscriptive far-left has been astonishingly rapid, and it is absolutely real. I also know people who have left, and many more who absolutely keep their political and even philosophical views to the…

10-12 years ago, there was no tech in SF. Zero. It was mainly financial companies or workers for Levi's, Gap, etc. All the best tech companies were in South Bay. It was Twitter, Zynga, Yelp and quickly followed by Uber, Airbnb, and all the other cool startups that brought tech into SF and probably the cause of that shift. SF started giving tax breaks to tech companies in the late aughts, and then it started the huge migration of tech startups from South Bay to SF.

Before that, it was rare for tech workers to live in SF. Most would live in South Bay and come up to SF to party on weekends.

Also, salaries went crazy in the last 8-10 years. Once all these rich tech workers came to the city that thought they knew best because they were rich and young, that's probably what caused the shift.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#150

Post by nl »

evgen wrote: post #102
shaftoe wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but it certainly makes you mainstream.

Agreeing with 46% of the population is mainstream? Okay...

Sure it is. No one claims driving a Honda Accord isn’t a mainstream choice just because they aren’t the number one selling car.
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