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Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

theguardian.com

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Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#141

Post by hackbinary »

ccozan wrote: post #76
hackbinary wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animals that have to be euthenised for one reason or another cannot, and nor should they enter the food chain for humans, cats, dog, or otherwise. Firstly, there are the drugs they use to humanely put down the patient which would be toxic to down stream consumers of the meat products, and secondly there maybe concerns about zoonosis.

If they choose to put down a horse and decide to used for human consumption, then they will certainly use a different method ( shot, hammer, etc ).

No, the problem is that there are other drugs that might have been administered therapeutically, so animals that are in the food chain have to be managed differently than ones that are for companionship or racing. For example Bute is commonly used in horses, but is toxic for humans.

This in part was why the horse meat scandle was such a problem in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21455419

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#142

Post by kleer001 »

muninn_ wrote: post #52
kleer001 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're a keystone species, have culture and language (probably older than any human one), they mourn their dead, and on and on...

Apologies for being a bit pedantic, but I had never heard of the phrase 'keystone species' and went on to look it up. While an elephant could be (and perhaps is) a keystone species, I don't find that the status of being such a species is relevant for discussions on consciousness of animals because of what this term actually means and includes. Starfish, for example, could be considered a keystone species. Not trying…

Good catch. Keystone-ness has nothing to do with consciousness, of course. I was making a pile of reasons not to murder elephants.

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#143

Post by mitchtbaum »

cetalingua wrote: post #137
mitchtbaum wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the function of even a single call, apart, of course, from signature whistles and echolocation Denise Herzing id'd seaweed, right? Perhaps there are other ones easy to identify through existing sub-sea-level candid camera videos: hey, there's a [food they eat], let's go over there; help / danger, there's a [thing they fear]; I forgot my [phone / wallet / keys] in my other pair of pants, brb... > we struggle to dete…

Denise Herzing used synthetic whistles trying to label things in our human way, pretty much the extension of Herman's line of thought. But we do not know if dolphins indeed label things in their natural communication system. Signature whistles are tricky, and not everyone agrees that they are actually a thing. There was a recent study done in Israel where dolphins appeared to be using signature whistles of dolphins w…

> synthetic whistles trying to label things

Oh, that's not very helpful..

> we do not know if dolphins indeed label things in their natural communication system

I believe we'd need to start with that as a basic assumption for how language works to begin with. How does that assumption seem to you?

> dolphins appeared to be using signature whistles of dolphins who died some time ago

I guess they probably talk about loved ones even when they're not in the same "room", same as us.

> Signature whistles are tricky

"Signature whistle" seems like an awfully complicated way to say "name".

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#144

Post by maroonblazer »

mijamo wrote: post #139
maroonblazer wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were to be thrown into a pot of boiling water and kept there for 10 minutes, would you rather be living and sentient or living and non-sentient? I'm guessing you'd choose the latter as would everyone else which suggests there's an objective basis for sentience.

Why would you do that? I have no idea of the experience as a non sentient. Maybe it's the same. Maybe better. Maybe worst.

By definition it’s “lack of experience”. So definitely, objectively better.

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#145

Post by ace_of_spades »

noobermin wrote: post #89
sethbannon wrote: post #17

Listening to these remarkable recordings, I can't help but think that as time goes on, more and more of the artificial mental barriers we've built between us and non-human animals will fall. I hope with more research humanity stops seeing non-human animals as resources to be exploited but rather as sentient beings to be respected.

I think we need to draw a line somewhere. Are plants not "resources to be exploited?" How about the bacteria in our gut? Ok, how about insects, say you don't even kill insects, what about if you accidentally step on a worm on a rainy day? Should we create "insect free zones" that keep bugs out (somehow) so that insects don't get needlessly killed on sidewalks or roads? What about rats? Rats and house mice carry harmf…

Thank you for your thougtful comment but I think you somewhat inflate two different points. On the one hand, there is sentience, on the other hand, there is our behavior towards other beings. You can certainly see the sentience in beings and still „punish“ or „correct“ them if they do wrong. This is what we have our judicary system for. In many places we already use this system in regards to animals (endangered species, etc.) but we could do more if we were to agree on the general idea that all life has some basic rights (and responsibilities).

So we can certainly aim to recognize the status of all animals and still keep on functioning. It might involve some degree of unease in certain situations (e.g., a bad feeling when stepping on an ant) but simply ignoring the sentience of other beings because of this unease seems like a lazy way out.

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#146

Post by phreeza »

kleer001 wrote: post #142
muninn_ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies for being a bit pedantic, but I had never heard of the phrase 'keystone species' and went on to look it up. While an elephant could be (and perhaps is) a keystone species, I don't find that the status of being such a species is relevant for discussions on consciousness of animals because of what this term actually means and includes. Starfish, for example, could be considered a keystone species. Not trying…

Good catch. Keystone-ness has nothing to do with consciousness, of course. I was making a pile of reasons not to murder elephants.

To be clear my comment was intended to question killing pigs, not "not killing elephants".

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#147

Post by kleer001 »

astura wrote: post #67
blondie9x wrote: post #12

Whales are intelligent. They should not be killed by humans who mask the activities as scientific research. Japan is a great country and a leader on many levels. I speak Japanese. I enjoy Japanese food and culture. The people are very kind and considerate. There are some who are concerned if you stop killing whales you must stop killing fish and other forms of sustenance. This is not the case. The difference is whale…

I don't follow the logic of why intelligence should be the decider of "its ok to kill" over sentience. Octopuses are incredibly smart but eaten by most Japanese, sometimes even alive.

> Octopuses are incredibly smart

They are, but their lives are so short they'll never develop language, culture, or any other kind of memetic structure for their species.

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