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LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

linuxboot.org

141–150 of 187 posts

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#141
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why it is important to not buy random shiny devices. Open source hardware like for example the Teres-1 [0] are what allows us to stay in control. I can't wait for even more open successors based on RISC-V processors. [0] https://www.olimex.com/Products/DIY-Laptop/

I‘m sorry, but 99% of the population will prefer a random shiny device that plays their cat video to one that lets them be „in control“ but have them recompile their kernel with the correct wifi driver before it works for them. With the current ecosystem, it‘s just much cheaper to mix and match commercial off the shelf solutions that are way too powerful for the job than custom building an optimized solution, because…

> I‘m sorry, but 99% of the population will prefer a random shiny device

That part gives me the impression of a fatalist stance, and I see that waaay too often. When everybody does x, but doing y gives some profit, people are all interested. But if it's doing y for some other reason, then it's always the "that battle is lost", or "the majority will never change". Argh! It is quite irrelevant if the majority buys random shiny devices or not. What matters only is if there are enough customers of good devices.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#142
post #100
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These "hardware features", whether its [U]EFI or ME or whatever acronym, IMO is a land grab by hardware vendors over what we know as the "OS". Less computer owner control, more vendor control. As long as you can still run the OS of your choice at the top of this stack of vendor OSs, what do the vendors gain by this 'land grab'? Particularly the HW vendors. I can imagine Apple and MS are happy to lock things down so o…

> What do the vendors gain by this 'land grab'? One thing is that it could be used to as a venue to pursue new recurring revenue streams. While not exactly the same thing, I've seen some people joke about intel locking owners from cpu features behind monthly subscriptions. This kind of exploitation requires disallowing owners from fully controlling their devices in order to be effective. The more control vendors have…

Well said. I remember a cheaper model of Sony laptop in which you cannot enable hyperthreading though it had same chipset of an expensive model.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#143
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With LinuxBoot you can use any filesystem that Linux supports, not just FAT. You can update boot entries by editing shell scripts, rather than manipulating opaque NVRAM variables. You can run Linux applications straight from the ROM if you want to do that. You can avoid legacy partitions entirely and use LVM for flexible volume management. And... You can build it yourself and verify that the reproducible build matche…

All very good and very valid points. Just wouldn’t want to do that with Linux. OpenBSD or FreeBSD, yes; illumos, yes; Linux - out of the question.

You're probably getting downvoted because you did not follow up with "...because $reasons", so your post comes off as petty Linux hate (is there such word as "anti-fanboyism"?).

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#144

IMO, the problems that [U]EFI introduces (that far exceed the historical limitations it overcomes) should be self-evident . IMO, he should not have to argue against having multiple, redundant copies of drivers, shells and utilties each accessible only in its own "OS" (UEFI, GRUB, OS). It should not be a debate. This is definitely not "defense in depth". IMO, whomever controls the first OS controls the computer becaus…

> I do most work on the commandline in text-mode (no graphics layer)

I'm pretty sure there is some graphics layers even in your work environment.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#145
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All very good and very valid points. Just wouldn’t want to do that with Linux. OpenBSD or FreeBSD, yes; illumos, yes; Linux - out of the question.

You're probably getting downvoted because you did not follow up with "...because $reasons", so your post comes off as petty Linux hate (is there such word as "anti-fanboyism"?).

Thanks for the clarification.

In the context, most other posts here contain no technical detail whatsoever either and are nothing more than unsubstantiated opinions (same as mine); they just really dislike that there is someone out there who doesn’t think that Linux is phenomenal. In the days of Microsoft dominance, we called that monoculture.

Volumes have been written and videos filmed on all the inadequacies of the GNU/Linux kernel, far more than I could cram into one “Hacker News” post. I for example get a painful reminder of just how unfit the Linux kernel is as firmware every time I turn on my television set which runs it (ARM V7 Linux for the curious). After that, I don’t want any more. That is not an isolated scenario.

Apropos petty, my hate of GNU/Linux is epic.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NVRAM on PC/server main boards is cleared with the RTCRST (Real Time Clock Reset) jumper. On laptops it’s a combination of keys usually some older ones would require removing the battery for a specific amount of time.

Great, but what magic key combo–or combos?

With Dell it's turn on all the locks (caps, num etc.) and press ALT+F IIRC not sure about every other laptop.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50+ points. Amazing. Anyones guess what this means but at the least I think it shows users1 have opinions about UEFI. I think it is a good thing if computer owners care about initialization, bootloaders, owner control and freedom of choice. Clearly some do care. Hats off to those folks. 1 Besides only this one: http://yarchive.net/comp/linux/efi.html

60 and rising. Can we make it to 70?

Apparently there are quite some differences between between HN & Reddit. For some reason, here you would get downvoted

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#148
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably getting downvoted because you did not follow up with "...because $reasons", so your post comes off as petty Linux hate (is there such word as "anti-fanboyism"?).

Thanks for the clarification. In the context, most other posts here contain no technical detail whatsoever either and are nothing more than unsubstantiated opinions (same as mine); they just really dislike that there is someone out there who doesn’t think that Linux is phenomenal. In the days of Microsoft dominance, we called that monoculture. Volumes have been written and videos filmed on all the inadequacies of the…

I seriously would be interested to learn more about that, can you point me to some resources

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#149
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DigitalTermometerSensor (sic) Heh, that gave me a chuckle > Userland written in Go ( http://u-root.tk ) So much for Go not being a systems programming language.

> So much for Go not being a systems programming language. There are other examples already. Fuchsia TCP/IP stack and file system driver management utilities are implemented in Go. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/golang-dev/2xuYHcP0Fdc/tKb1P... Android's new GPU debugger is written in Go. https://github.com/google/gapid An then there are some bare-metal experiments like G.E.R.T. https://github.com/ycoroneos/G.E.R.T

I knew about G.E.R.T. but the other two are new to me, very nice!

(I was going for a tongue-in-cheek ribbing of the Go-haters - in retrospect my wording sounds a bit passive-aggressive, probably should have ended with an exclamation mark and a smily or something)

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#150

BTW, on the flip side of the UEFI haters, i.e. things that I can do with UEFI more easily than BIOS (or at all). I can now have a normal partition to put my boot loaders in rather than a hidden chunk at the beginning of the disk. I can easily update, add and remove boot entries from the OS command line. I can forgo bootloaders entirely and use Linux as UEFI application. I can use GPT and finally partition as much as…

>I can use GPT and finally partition as much as I want. BIOS actually don't care what is on disk except for 512 bytes containing MBR, so it is possible to use GPT partitions with it.

Also GPT partitions have little use when using mdraid/dm-crypt/lvm2 (or zfs) stack. IIRC Windows have similar features with dynamic partitions, so I don't see any reason to use bios partitioning for anything beyond boot (and MBR is enough for it, even without extended partitions).
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