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SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

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Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#141

Post by chisleu »

lambda wrote: post #41
bambax wrote: post #28

As a foreigner the whole government shutdown is a thing of wonder: how does it work exactly? For instance, is there no police anymore? How does Congress stay in session during a shutdown? Where does electricity in federal buildings come from if the Federal govt can't pay for it?

One thing to understand about the US is that it is actually a federation of states. Much of the day-to-day work happens at the state or local level, not at the federal level. Police, fire departments, emergency first responders mostly employed at that level, and when the federal government is involved, a lot of it is in doing some coordination between states, setting standards, funding for various programs, and so on…

IMHO, states should be prepared for federal governments being "shutdown" or dissolved. What we call shutdowns are not real shut downs. Military doesn't go on leave. They still do their same job. Many key workers do their same jobs as well. Some workers end up staying home and then later are usually paid for the time they missed at work anyway. #FreeVacation

It is a contrived emergency so the political parties can try to increase pressure to get pork through that they would not have otherwise in order to get the votes high enough to end the BS.

IMHO, the federal government should be entirely dissolved and the states should have a more loose confederation like the EU has. Federal law and over spending have gone too far. By overspending, I mean how the DoD decided to spend billions that it was not given by Congress. I don't mean any liberal vs conservative notion of how government should spend.

I know this is a pipe dream, but one way it could happen is through a "shutdown" that never stops.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#143

Post by mikeash »

ars wrote: post #139
mikeash wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and the majority party decided to waste their chance on unpopular tax cuts rather than use it to keep the lights on.

The tax cuts are actually very popular. And I don't think anyone expected the Democrats to actually shut down the government over illegal immigrants.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-gop-tax-cuts-are-ev...

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#144

Post by the_watcher »

freeflight wrote: post #110
moonka wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shutdown started at Midnight Friday though didn't it?

Officially yes, but I can imagine there being some bureaucratic delay until it's in full effect/everybody got the news. Not a lot of time between midnight Friday and Saturday. In German radio news, the US correspondent explained that the weekend should still be fine, with full effects of the shutdown beginning around Monday with the new week.

> with full effects of the shutdown beginning around Monday with the new week.

That's just because most government services are always off on the weekend, not because of a delay. The news was distributed widely and broadly near instantly.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#145

Post by TeMPOraL »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #118
icelancer wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Which is beyond ironic to anyone who's worked in the corporate world, but I guess that's for another thread. >>This idea they have that private enterprise naturally evolves toward the most efficient system is laughable. Work in private industry AND government and you might find the comparison a bit more apt, not that I'm a Republican.

I've worked in both, they're really not that different. Large organizations just seem to gravitate towards inefficiency.

I'm of belief that the inefficiency scales with internal organizational complexity, which roughly scales with size. Basically, the more people you need to involve for a typical step in a project, the less efficient you get. Government branches seem to be terribly inefficient, because even the smallest one is in fact responsible to a lot of people (other agencies, oversight bodies, politicians and, ultimately, the public).

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#146

Post by logfromblammo »

askvictor wrote: post #85
bsimpson wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing that blew my mind last time: The shoreline of San Francisco is a national park (donated when the military base here closed). There's a restaurant on the shore called Cliff House, whose landlord is the US government. During the shutdown, the government forced the restaurant, a private establishment, to close. The owners and the kitchen staff were not allowed to make a living. And because they aren't…

I'm curious: who actually checked on whether they were closed?

"I said powerless to help you, not punish you." --Chief Wiggum

Maybe ensuring that the economic hostages of a shutdown will actually suffer is an essential government function?

It wouldn't surprise me if there were a few people trespassing on closed national parklands right now, without incidents. And a few of them might even be furloughed employees.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#147

Post by the_watcher »

freeflight wrote: post #129
SiempreViernes wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta be a weird person not to check the outcome on the news before going to work since they've been plenty forewarned. I guess someone living close by, that woke up late and doesn't have radio, tv, or internet available for a quick check could plausibly skip over calling someone to find out before jogging over.

Weird persons exist, just like persons who don't include checking news during their breakfast routine, then there's also a subset of weird people who might just like doing their job and don't mind working that one Saturday without pay.

They may exist, but they'd figure it out pretty quickly when they can't get into the office or access any job-related systems (which is what happens during a shutdown).

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#148

Post by kasey_junk »

ars wrote: post #139
mikeash wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and the majority party decided to waste their chance on unpopular tax cuts rather than use it to keep the lights on.

The tax cuts are actually very popular. And I don't think anyone expected the Democrats to actually shut down the government over illegal immigrants.

It is impossible for this not to be a political topic and I probably shouldn’t be even discussing it here, but whatever.

What would be the reasonable thing for the democrats to do right now? They weren’t allowed to see the tax bill. That’s what happens when something has the 51 republicans and it can’t be filibustered in the current environment.

Further, the republicans haven’t even brought a bill forward to be filibustered likely because they don’t have the votes in their own party.

I’m fairly centrist for this site but the republicans controlling every part of the government as well as already using their reconciliation power and blaming the democrats is so shockingly perverse in its cinycism. That’s before you even take into account the duplicity on DACA that has broad bipartisan support up to a meeting with the president last week.

Neither morally or strategically should the democrats budge on this.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#149

Post by pandaman »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #80
ghostcluster wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that the idea itself isn't new, but space tech has been stagnant for decades before a company like SpaceX appeared on the scene

No, the original comment claimed that the USSR boosters we're designed to glide and land, which they never were. And rockets landing and taking off many times is a very old idea, also not invented in USSR in the 70's.

According to the Russian Wiki article, Energiya's first stage was designed to be reusable by the way of parachutes, solid fuel engines and supports, however, the system was not implemented during its two launches and the parachute containers were loaded with other equipment. Wiki gives this as reference: http://www.buran.ru/htm/09-3.htm

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#150

Post by Clanan »

lambda wrote: post #41
bambax wrote: post #28

As a foreigner the whole government shutdown is a thing of wonder: how does it work exactly? For instance, is there no police anymore? How does Congress stay in session during a shutdown? Where does electricity in federal buildings come from if the Federal govt can't pay for it?

One thing to understand about the US is that it is actually a federation of states. Much of the day-to-day work happens at the state or local level, not at the federal level. Police, fire departments, emergency first responders mostly employed at that level, and when the federal government is involved, a lot of it is in doing some coordination between states, setting standards, funding for various programs, and so on…

FYI this is a great neutral explanation up until the last paragraph, which is politically charged. This attempts to imply the Republican party sought the shutdown. In fact, the shutdown was caused by the Democratic party not voting for the Continuing Resolution (pseudo-budget). 60 Senate votes are required, but the majority party (Republicans) only has 51. It's a big slimy ball of politics all-around.

Also, more on point, many government entities have "carry-forward" funds which are available during a shutdown. In 2013 the Executive Branch (Democrat president) discouraged the use of these funds. The current admin is encouraging their use to ensure as little disruption as possible.

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