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A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

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Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#141

Post by dtech »

yborg wrote: post #131
ryandrake wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a motorist, the 4-way stop is the most disruptive and maddeningly inefficient traffic control device in the municipality's tool chest. How much fuel and how many brake pads are consumed because towns just default to this kind of intersection. There are many better options (as others have listed in this thread) for almost all traffic situations. Always reaching for the 4-way stop is lazy and irritates motorists.

Because death is an acceptable trade-off for avoiding irritation - as long as it's not your death, of course.

What a bullshit response, he argues that there are a lot of better alternatives, not that there shouldn't be any safety precautions.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#142

Post by thirdsun »

hamandcheese wrote: post #134
ryandrake wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a motorist, the 4-way stop is the most disruptive and maddeningly inefficient traffic control device in the municipality's tool chest. How much fuel and how many brake pads are consumed because towns just default to this kind of intersection. There are many better options (as others have listed in this thread) for almost all traffic situations. Always reaching for the 4-way stop is lazy and irritates motorists.

There are a lot of situations where a two way stop would cause traffic to get backed up in the direction of the stop sign. A great example is a 4 way stop at my former high school. Twice a day, everyone came and left causing a bit of a traffic jam. A two way stop would leave people in one direction waiting indefinitely, whereas a 4 way kept things chugging along rather nicely in both directions.

That is an intersection that needs traffic lights. And if it's just twice a day, default the less used direction to red and have it switch to green only if a car is actually waiting.

As a european 4 way stops seem really inefficient to me. If the intersection isn't that busy a 2 way stop (or no stop at all) favouring the more frequently used road is the obvious choice. If it's a busy 4 way stop however, can you really keep track of when other cars arrived at the stop? And if it's busy enough that you have to yield to the car to your right, chances are that everyone has a car to their right - so vague negotiation between drivers is required. Nobody wins in that scenario.

Also, roundabouts are the superior 4 way stops.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#143

Post by angle_eyes »

subroutine wrote: post #83

Could it also have something to do with the wild horses hanging out at the intersection: https://goo.gl/qTSZWJ Perhaps they are not 'wild', I'm just not used to seeing horses near a roadway, without a fence between us. Is this a common thing in England?

It's not common throughout the country, but the roads in question are within the New Forest where there are a large number of ponies and other animals roaming free ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Forest#Ponies,_cattle,_pig...

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#144

Post by thirdsun »

kbart wrote: post #114
marcus_holmes wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For cyclists, roundabouts aren't that much better unless we're given separate lanes. Motorists still tend to blow through roundabouts at speed if they can't see anything coming. From personal experience you can easily navigate a roundabout at 35+ mph.

"From personal experience you can easily navigate a roundabout at 35+ mph." If a roundabout is small enough, you can't. I have seen many small roundabouts throughout Europe that you cannot navigate without swerving faster than 20-30 km/h (which is assumed safe speed for pedestrian).

Plus, at least in my region there always seems to be some sort of obstacle blocking sight in the center of larger roundabouts. Maybe it's just a convenient place for memorials, statues, etc., but I can't help but think that slowing down drivers is at least a welcome side effect.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#145

Post by Doctor_Fegg »

matte_black wrote: post #11
rayiner wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing drivers to make left turns just to stay on the same road is a recipe for more car accidents. The proble could be resolved simply by putting up a stop light.

If the goal is to maintain speed through the intersection they could have built a bridge to overlap the other road.

This is in the New Forest National Park. You can’t just go constructing massive structures because drivers are too lazy to read signs.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#147

Post by proto-n »

DaveInTucson wrote: post #124

Basic rule of the road: if you haven't made eye contact with someone, you should assume they haven't seen you and don't know you're there. I mean, they could improve the intersection by making it a full stop, but educating bicyclists not to ride out in front of somebody who will hit you if they don't slow down seems like a good step too.

The article describes that the cyclists don't see the car either because it is coming up on them from behind (at a 94 degree angle, with higher speed).

You can't know you haven't made eye contact if you don't know they are there.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#149

Post by aidenn0 »

mrb wrote: post #69
temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #8

There's a lot of math in this article about blind spots and car pillars and whatnot, but a Google Maps Street View appears to show the terrain and brush blocking the view on approach [1][2], making all of this math largely moot. That the drivers in question didn't even so much as slow down for this approach is beyond reckless, aside from the other lawbreaking that followed. The 'Give Way' sign is idiotic, put a Stop…

« make it a 4-way stop » You may be unaware, but 4-way stop signs are very uncommon outside of the US. In fact, in the UK they have always been formally prohibited by the Department for Transport in 2002. As a European driver, I discovered the existence of 4-way stop signs when I moved to the US, and I have always found them dangerous in a counter intuitive way: drivers are so used to 4-way stop intersections, that t…

At least 4-way stops have the same basic rules throughout the US (cars go in order of arrival).

2-way stops do not:

Consider the case where the first car to arrive is turning left, but cannot do so due to traffic on the main road. Then a car arrives from the opposite direction going straight. Who is supposed to go first? In some states it's the car that reached the stop sign first, in others it's the car going straight.

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