James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google • Hacker News Board

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#141

Post by falcor84 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:01 PM UTC

creaghpatr wrote: post #109

falcor84 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please provide more detail?

https://www.employmentattorneyla.com/blog/2017/06/can-you-be... TLDR: yes, and there are certain exceptions, IANAL so not sure where this particular case falls

Thanks, that's interesting. This in particular may be relevant to the case:

"However, there are exceptions. For instance, if you participate in a political activity that creates a conflict of interest with your employer's business model, your job could potentially be on the line"

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#142

Post by verroq » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:01 PM UTC

dguaraglia wrote: post #22

stale2002 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he said something about biologically less INTERESTED in engineering, nothing about capability.

Would you call "lack of interest" a handicap? Would you be likely to be suspicious about candidates coming from a group that you know to be "less interested" in a job you are offering?

Association fallacy [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#143

Post by dmitrygr » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

vorotato wrote: post #90

dmitrygr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California, workplace discrimination due to politics is illegal [1] In USA, discrimination due to sex is illegal. [1] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...

Yes, discrimination against men, and or white people is illegal. They can show though that they hire plenty of white men. You are correct in California you cannot discriminate against employees due to politics, however I'm sure they'd be able to show they hire plenty of republicans. It is also an uphill battle for Damore since he'd basically be claiming that he was discriminated against at the same time as arguing th…

> however I'm sure they'd be able to show they hire plenty of republicans

Discrimination is not just about hiring but also about workplace comfort. And let me tell you, being a non-democrat at google is NOT comfortable! VERY not comfortable!

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#144

Post by ng12 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #99

ng12 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little grating, to be honest. The tech world loves statistics and empirical research until it clashes with their world view.

What a ridiculous comment. (a) There is no consistent world view for tens of millions of people distributed across the globe, (b) there is no research, none, that specifically states that women are genetically predisposed to be less suited to engineering and (c) there is no clear rules about what aspects of our biology are required to be a great engineer.

I mean this stuff has been studied for years:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3030621/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4129348/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4157091/

Maybe these studies are wrong, maybe the conclusions Damore drew were wrong (I certainly think they are). However, I think witch-hunting people for asking questions about sensitive topics is a much more clear and present danger.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#145

Post by ironjunkie » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #121

brndnmtthws wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

News outlets generate income through sensationalism, and that's the storyline that they need to drive the most traffic.

This has nothing to do with the news and everything to do with what Damore did. He was fired for a reason.

Sure, and the politically correct system is never wrong. Continue to live in your utopia

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#146

Post by Alex3917 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

lukev wrote: post #116

Veen wrote: post #3

From the article: > women may not be equally represented in tech because they are biologically less capable of engineering Why do news outlets persistently misrepresent what he actually said? I've read his memo and just about every news article says it contains claims that it doesn't. I have no view on whether he's right or not, but I remain shocked at the misrepresentation of his views throughout the tech media.

What? Did we read the same memo? One of his central points is that the representation gap between men and women in technology is due to different biological distributions. From the memo: > I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leader…

> the consensus is that biological sex differences are not that big of an effect, certainly not enough to explain the gender disparity in tech.

Whether sex differences explain the gender disparity in tech isn't even the kind of question that cog dev folks ask.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#147

Post by xeeeeeeeeeeenu » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

carrja99 wrote: post #136

john_moscow wrote: post #87

He doesn't have a choice really. With the PR mess he got himself into, no big company will ever hire him. Imagine the possible headlines "Microsoft hires the James Damore, the male supremacy advocate fired from Google". Nope, regardless the technical skill or his actual personality, his public image is forever ruined. So he realistically has a choice between becoming a paid speaker for fringe ultra-right organization…

> So he realistically has a choice between becoming a paid speaker for fringe ultra-right organizations Isn't that what he's been doing through his twitter account where he muses whether people join the KKK because they have cool titles? Or his interviews with people like Milo?

>Isn't that what he's been doing through his twitter account where he muses whether people join the KKK because they have cool titles?

That was just a joke, stop pretending he is a neo-nazi.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#148

Post by zouhair » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

Veen wrote: post #3

From the article: > women may not be equally represented in tech because they are biologically less capable of engineering Why do news outlets persistently misrepresent what he actually said? I've read his memo and just about every news article says it contains claims that it doesn't. I have no view on whether he's right or not, but I remain shocked at the misrepresentation of his views throughout the tech media.

When the majority of people coming to your defense are right wing extremists[0][1] and neo-nazis you are doing something wrong. You can also read his twitter account, he went full on alt-right.

I am happy he got his ass fired.

[0]: http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/08/18/james-damore-like-g...

[1]: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450202/google-employees...

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#149

Post by ythn » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

whack wrote: post #78

"...employees of Google who’ve been discriminated against due to their “perceived conservative political views by Google " Is that really illegal? If someone was not hired on account of his being a White supremacist, would he have any basis for a lawsuit?

The sword cuts both ways. How would you feel if a company with ties to churches started discriminating/firing liberals who are pro-abortion because they are "murder advocates"?

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#150

Post by tboyd47 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

Jonovono wrote: post #27

I never really saw too much issue with what he wrote. It seemed a lot of people were mad at him for things he never said. It's been awhile since I read his document, but I remember expecting it to be so bad from all the uproar I was hearing, but after reading it I couldn't find much to be angry about. Can someone enlighten me - i'll admit, this may be a highly ignorant topic of mine.

I read it and it made me pretty annoyed, not so much for what he said, but how he chose to go about saying it.

He says he is only trying to start a conversation or discussion, but circulating a secret memo around your company and then going on a self-promotional media crusade really is not a great way to do that. It looks more like a political stunt, which is pretty much the opposite of a conversation.