How I went from programming to consulting (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#141

Post by bajsejohannes » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

ivanhoe wrote: post #129

zdw wrote: post #17

Step 1: Be popular/famous enough that people know your name. Step 2: Be good/accurate enough at opining in ways that make sense. Most people won't have either 1 or 2 going for them. There's one more thing - charging a lot is how to signal value, which is a a huge thing. I know a guy who used to manage an A-list rock band (everyone knows their songs) who went into consulting, and started out lowballing people, for $1k…

IMO it's a mistake to focus on his particular fees, that's what he managed to make for himself. You need to find your own realistic path. For instance I, living outside of US, will probably never be able to charge $100+ hour my clients, I'm fully aware of that. But no matter who you are, you probably still can push for a little bit more, and that's where Patrick's advices are solid. Often, it's just a matter of askin…

There are plenty of places outside of the US where you can charge that rate.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#142

Post by blhack » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

A question that has bugged me about consulting:

Why aren't there (afaik) consulting agents in the same way comedians/actors/musicians have agents?

Find me a gig, negotiate the payment, accept the payment, and pay me. Also interface with the client for me.

Ultimately the agent works for me doing all of the work I'm bad at.

Does this exist? How do I hire somebody to do this sort of thing for me?

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#143

Post by mgkimsal » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

putnam wrote: post #130

CyberDildonics wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He used an exaggerated metaphor to illustrate that pragmatically, not everyone can market themselves to become well known, no matter how good they are at writing software. You then turned that into an irrelevant comparison of the difficulty of becoming an actor vs a consultant.

Thank you. Do you think that someone who is good at writing software can not learn to market themselves to become well known?

Not the OP, but my own experience is that it's a more uncommon skill than I first thought. I know plenty of skilled developers, but only a handful have a combination of business savvy and enough social skills and graces to be able to talk to a variety of people in business settings without ... hosing it up somehow.

I'm not at all saying all 'consultants' are great at this either - 'consultants' work for 'big 5' firms and are just sent out on engagements, which isn't quite the 'consultant' we're talking about here (the word means many things).

I've worked with people on projects who couldn't sense when the other people in the room were veering off topic and not understanding a response. Also worked with people who could not ever understand they themselves were going offtopic and/or not understanding what the clients were saying. Talking to hear yourself talk is a big one. Not being able to adjust yourself to the project is a project (if you're working with a small $2m company of 10 people, repeating anecdotes from your $100m engagements isn't impressive, it's ... annoying and/or off-topic).

Not delivering when you say you will. Not calling people back when you say you will. Blaming everyone else but yourself - these are all problems I've seen (and experienced) myself as an independent consultant. Easier to mask/hide when you're "just" doing development as an internal employee someplace.

Also... you posted this and have asked a lot of questions. If you want to talk more offline, email me.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#144

Post by blhack » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

putnam wrote: post #133

user5994461 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A consultant do the exact same work that you do, except he's paid a multiple of you and doesn't get company benefits.

Can a consultant do any kind/type of work?

Yes. "Consultant" seems to be essentially synonymous with "contractor" or "freelancer".

They come in to do a specific job, then leave.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#145

Post by ZenoArrow » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:11 PM UTC

taude wrote: post #139

ZenoArrow wrote: post #49

Consulting fees certainly make the work more attractive than it would otherwise be, and I have been tempted to go down this path before. That aside, part of me thinks that the culture around consulting is masking bigger problems. I've seen consultants being brought onto projects where the main development staff would've been better placed to do the work (more knowledge about the intricacies of a business, better awar…

I feel like you just described my office perfectly.

I wonder how common our shared situation is.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#146

Post by tw04 » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:12 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #142

A question that has bugged me about consulting: Why aren't there (afaik) consulting agents in the same way comedians/actors/musicians have agents? Find me a gig, negotiate the payment, accept the payment, and pay me. Also interface with the client for me. Ultimately the agent works for me doing all of the work I'm bad at. Does this exist? How do I hire somebody to do this sort of thing for me?

Because, generally speaking, those people make enough per-gig to support an agent making a living taking a small cut.

Furthermore the amount of time required for the comedian/actor/musician to complete the work is pretty small.

If you can start charging 6 figures for projects you can complete in a couple days, I'm sure an agent would be happy to work for you. If not...

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#147

Post by mgkimsal » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:12 PM UTC

AFNobody wrote: post #137

putnam wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think being a consultant is as rare as becoming an actor?

A consultant making 5 figures a week, in practical terms, is a unicorn that is not reliably repeatable. Most people cannot maintain that level of marketing while maintaining an income (as a consultant) effectively. If they could, every programmer would try to transition into making 5 figures a week as a consultant instead of making $100-200k with a stable job. The $4k/week thing isn't since pretty much any decent con…

That person making 5 figures per week often doesn't need or want to be working 'repeatably' or have a full schedule. A couple folks I know charge $15k-$20k/week, but they only care to take on a few of those per year, while pursuing other interests (other business ideas, etc). Even $30k/week is still selling time for money, and "isn't scalable" - maxing out at $1.5m/year even fully booked, which few are.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#148

Post by hullsean » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:12 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #142

A question that has bugged me about consulting: Why aren't there (afaik) consulting agents in the same way comedians/actors/musicians have agents? Find me a gig, negotiate the payment, accept the payment, and pay me. Also interface with the client for me. Ultimately the agent works for me doing all of the work I'm bad at. Does this exist? How do I hire somebody to do this sort of thing for me?

yes. they are head shops. but one key detail. you are working for them. not the reverse. the relationship with the customer is very valuable

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#149

Post by k__ » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:15 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #144

putnam wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can a consultant do any kind/type of work?

Yes. "Consultant" seems to be essentially synonymous with "contractor" or "freelancer". They come in to do a specific job, then leave.

Consultant is simply perceived higher value than freelancer or contractor.

Since I started selling myself as a "Mobile Consultant" I made significantly more money than selling myself as a "Front-End Developer", "Freelance Developer" or such.

Seemingly it's all in the wording these days.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#150

Post by hullsean » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:16 PM UTC

ethbro wrote: post #42

mgkimsal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those saying this doesn't happen any more... it still can, and does. However, the bigger issue most people face is finding those people who can actually get that sort of value from our knowledge/skills/etc. I can give the same info to 2 companies, and one can make several hundred thousand dollars (in savings, new sales, etc). The other may not even be operating at a scale where they'll see $10k in increased value…

The weird thing with consulting (in my experience) is that a customer almost never knows how capable they are of effectively using a consultant's time and output. "Okay, we signed a one month consulting engagement, starting Tuesday." Consultant(s) show up on Tuesday, no db's or credentials have been set up, everyone seems surprised they're there. It consistently amazed me how much consultant time companies waste. Whe…

this is another reason weekly billing works in everyone’s favor. in the former ex, the customer would not lose with hourly billing. with weekly billing they become very motivated to resolve hurdles to your success