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Google Maps' Moat

justinobeirne.com

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Re: Google Maps' Moat

#141

Post by ovao »

irrational wrote: post #129
ovao wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To offer a counterpoint, I decided to start alternating between Apple Maps and Google Maps a few months ago and — so far — I haven’t been led astray by Apple Maps. I do live in L.A., however, which is probably among the best case scenarios for Apple Maps at the moment. Google does have the better product, but for the most part I can see Apple Maps being at least “good enough” for my use, much the same way that Safari…

The problem for Apple is why would anyone want to use "good enough" when the alternatives are better, free, and easily available?

If it weren't for the fairly deep tendrils Apple Maps has in iOS itself, or if it were possible to change the 'default' maps app to a competitor's, there wouldn't be a particularly compelling reason. As it is, however, using a third-party app sometimes means awkwardly copying and pasting addresses, not having a turn-by-turn map present on the lock screen and so on, so there are compelling reasons against using third-party maps apps.

These limitations are, of course, entirely of Apple's creation.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#142

Post by sytelus »

Many people don't realize why Google maps are so much better than anything out there. I would actually give lot of credit to Marissa Mayer who suddenly became in charge of maps from otherwise more higher position. Thanks to her influence in Google SLT and ability to make impressive arguments, she was able to make a case for maps as core pillar in Google's offering and consequently obtain huge investment and large talent pool to work on it. Creating these level of details world wide requires dazzling amount of investment that even some small governments can't afford. In most companies, you will not get green lighted for this because there is no real revenue coming in and its basically social charity in form of a free app. Now the reality is that you can't do self-driving cars without great maps and the day Google pulls its map app from iOS you can bet Apple is going to have a giant hole in their balance sheet.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#143

Post by puzzle »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #29

tl;dr - Google Maps has buildings and Areas of Interest (streets with more businesses) based on satellite & street view data. "Google is creating data out of data ... It makes you wonder how long back Google was planning all of this—and what it’s planning next" My guess is that they weren't planning it. Somebody decided to use their 20% time to learn TensorFlow and process the Street View imagery for fun, and that si…

This was definitely planned, only perhaps not in this kind of detail. The Geo organization's motto paralleled the company's (to organize the world's information, etc. etc.), only at a geospatial level.

The data you see in Google Maps came and probably still comes from a pipeline of pipelines that rebuild the whole planet on a regular schedule. Since we're talking about all of Earth, random stuff here and there could cause hiccups and delays. Information comes from all sorts of sources, including custom HW (streetview camera, etc.), flying their own planes, owning a satellite company for a few years, and so on.

In one shape or another, it all predates Tensorflow by years.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#144

Post by kumarvvr »

adventured wrote: post #109
kumarvvr wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With their cash pile, they could surely expand, considering the long term returns on such expansion of computing power. Maybe Apple just dosent see the need to improve or dosent see any revenue potential with Maps.

This Internet / Web software services weakness goes all the way back for Apple. Jobs was constantly frustrated at how mediocre Apple's results were in that area (in my opinion I don't think he was very good at cultivating that area in terms of his expertise or skill). It's extremely difficult for a company to be good at many things. I'd be skeptical there's anything Apple can ever do to be good at their hardware obje…

One way around that would be to start a new subsidiary that is mandated to focus on services, hire good people to run it, dont list it till its profitable and support it financially. Atleast that is one way to overcome the too big to innovate type weaknesses.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#145

Post by puzzle »

gonyea wrote: post #122
krisdol wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched as well, for different reasons. Some things I found that I liked about apple maps: its navigation has speed limit information and I much prefer its design. It seems less busy, and it gets out of my way. Something about google maps just felt really cramped. I know that sounds really subjective, but I enjoyed using one more than the other. That said, google has better directions and estimates. And maybe that…

Google Maps has a show speed limit toggle, behind a setting.

I think that only works in the Bay area and Brazil for now.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#146

Post by ghaff »

jonknee wrote: post #111

Google also has a giant lead in trails / feature names. I hike a ton and Google has been adding trails at a brisk pace. I just checked the Snoqualmie Pass area about an hour outside of Seattle and Apple Maps has almost no trails, named mountains or named lakes (even quite large ones). A few trails show up as unnamed roads. There's also no relief shading to tell where the mountains are or a terrain view for contour li…

Although I find, in a lot of places, that OpenStreetMaps is a lot better than Google for hiking trails.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#147

Post by puzzle »

on_and_off wrote: post #117
londons_explore wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need aerial imagery from different angles. Thats surprisingly hard to buy from imagery providers, because most of them only want to point their cameras directly downwards.

Do we know how Google obtains this data ? Could drones be used here ? It looks like it would be a good way to refresh this data often on the cheap. (drone is the loosest sense, a balloon would do the trick)

A couple of public blog posts made it obvious that Google flies planes.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#148

Post by klodolph »

ovao wrote: post #141
irrational wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem for Apple is why would anyone want to use "good enough" when the alternatives are better, free, and easily available?

If it weren't for the fairly deep tendrils Apple Maps has in iOS itself, or if it were possible to change the 'default' maps app to a competitor's, there wouldn't be a particularly compelling reason. As it is, however, using a third-party app sometimes means awkwardly copying and pasting addresses, not having a turn-by-turn map present on the lock screen and so on, so there are compelling reasons against using third-…

These limitations are really a byproduct of the deal falling apart between Apple and Google. Apparently, Google wanted access to more user data in exchange for adding turn-by-turn directions to Google Maps. They could not reach a deal, so Apple Maps was hastily created and Google Maps was booted from the default image.

In the end I can understand the limitations on the lock screen because it can be tricky to figure out the right way to give third-party apps special permissions like that. This is not some kind of tacked-on limitation that Apple added, but instead it's something that didn't exist on iOS until Apple added it. Remember that Google Maps, at the time, didn't give turn by turn directions at all never mind on the lock screen. Given how cautious Apple has been with the iOS permissions model (compared to Android, for sure) this shouldn't be even slightly surprising.

The fact that you can't make Google Maps the default handler is stupid, though.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#149

Post by joshuamorton »

mcrady wrote: post #15
0003 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can maps be a killer app?

I launched Google Maps for mobile in 2005. In 2006, Eric Schmidt was worried that Yahoo Go was a killer app. My claim that Google Maps was the real killer app fell on deaf ears. :)

This is a total non sequitor, but huh, your last comment on this account was in 2012. Do you use others, or just only speak when you feel you have something incredibly cool (which this tidbit certainly is!) to add?

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#150

Post by jgh »

Honestly I _hate_ Google Maps, but it seems like the best thing available. I wish they'd spend less time on building outlines and more time on making the UI not totally suck. Someone should make a maps startup that isn't awful

(note: these examples are from the web app, which I prefer, because the mobile app is infuriating to use except for driving directions)

For example if I google an address and click the link to Maps, there's no street view button. If I search for "food", the "current location" button disappears...so I have to manually scroll to wherever I am. If I search for a store or whatever in Google and then click the map, there's no current location OR street view!

Typing "{whatever} near {address}" works whenever it feels like working. Half the time I get a random address on {whatever} street.

The goddamn search overlay takes up about 3/4 of the screen if you accidentally click on something (and they make sure you do).

On to the app:

The audio driving directions have gotten better...so I give them credit there. I never drive with the display on, so audio directions are crucial.

If I'm walking around somewhere and I search for restaurants that's fine..but if I make the mistake of clicking on a restaurant I get a full-screen view of reviews and shit. The map totally disappears! I'm just trying to focus the goddamn thing so I can see where it is!

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