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Modern life is lonely – We all need someone to help

theguardian.com

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Re: Modern life is lonely – We all need someone to help

#141

Post by Danihan »

workthrowaway27 wrote: post #131
grondilu wrote: post #4

Lately I've become more and more convinced that indeed, modern society sucks, or at the very least that I, and people like me, am not well equipped to flourish in it. I'm sure some people are though, but I suspect they are becoming the minority. Few days ago I also read Ted Kaczynski's essay[1], and it's hard for me not to acknowledge how right he is on many points. However, I do believe it is possible to survive all…

You're treading close to nihilism here, which is a dangerous way to live. The article has a good quote: "The great prophylactic against loneliness is feeling that you are part of something bigger than yourself – a family, a friendship group, a community, a benign universe, whatever. Even a community with little in the way of material resources finds some contentment in being in a group of people who are all in it tog…

>being in a group of people who are all in it together."

All in what together?

Groups need goals, some sense of purpose..

Re: Modern life is lonely – We all need someone to help

#142

Post by baursak »

grondilu wrote: post #4

Lately I've become more and more convinced that indeed, modern society sucks, or at the very least that I, and people like me, am not well equipped to flourish in it. I'm sure some people are though, but I suspect they are becoming the minority. Few days ago I also read Ted Kaczynski's essay[1], and it's hard for me not to acknowledge how right he is on many points. However, I do believe it is possible to survive all…

It's not modern society that sucks, it's our version of modern society that sucks.

If you're into essays, check this one out: http://julesboykoff.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Boykoff_L...

Re: Modern life is lonely – We all need someone to help

#143

Post by kridsdale »

Danihan wrote: post #141
workthrowaway27 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're treading close to nihilism here, which is a dangerous way to live. The article has a good quote: "The great prophylactic against loneliness is feeling that you are part of something bigger than yourself – a family, a friendship group, a community, a benign universe, whatever. Even a community with little in the way of material resources finds some contentment in being in a group of people who are all in it tog…

>being in a group of people who are all in it together." All in what together? Groups need goals, some sense of purpose..

Traditionally, survival.

Re: Modern life is lonely – We all need someone to help

#144

Post by Danihan »

gumby wrote: post #134

This is actually why I am so concerned with (as in: working towards) the elimination of all jobs. "But what will people do?" I am often asked, as if the worth of someone is determined by their job. They can write bad poetry or watch TV, but I suspect and hope that a lot of the time will be spent with others. Humans are social animals.

So, just tons of STDs and overpopulation?

Re: Modern life is lonely – We all need someone to help

#145

Post by wenc »

dominotw wrote: post #86
grondilu wrote: post #4

Lately I've become more and more convinced that indeed, modern society sucks, or at the very least that I, and people like me, am not well equipped to flourish in it. I'm sure some people are though, but I suspect they are becoming the minority. Few days ago I also read Ted Kaczynski's essay[1], and it's hard for me not to acknowledge how right he is on many points. However, I do believe it is possible to survive all…

I would say fooling your mind is not easy. Definition of mind is "something that seeks" to want a "mind that doesn't seek" is meaningless and absurd. Its like wanting a nose that doesn't breathe. Sure you can come up with various philosophies like stoicism, Buddhism ect but you are merely trading one loop of seeking for another. Now you are stuck in a 'non-seeking' loop and failure to achieve 'non-seeking'.

> I would say fooling your mind is not easy.

Just responding to this: fooling your mind is not hard. Even very rational, skeptical minds engage in self deception all the time. Our minds are so unbelievably malleable. We are all wired to be prone to biases and unexamined schemas. These just look different for rational types.

On the other hand, it is possible to achieve results by not fooling your mind, but simply by reframing one's own thoughts. This is the basis of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), which works very well in helping manage negative feedback loops.

Often times our negative emotions are caused by feedback loops, therefore it stands to reason that we need a method to moderate these overactive loops. CBT is one of a few approaches that have been shown to work well for a significant number of people (nothing works 100% of course).

Guy Winch alludes to this in a TED Talk (I think TED talks are oversimplifications, but this one does present some good salient points about emotional hygiene and loneliness which I have found to be helpful in my own life)

https://www.ted.com/talks/guy_winch_the_case_for_emotional_h...

Re: Modern life is lonely – We all need someone to help

#146

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

battlebooth wrote: post #75
estebancastano wrote: post #11

For the past year, I've been working on the social isolation problem. Here's the idea we're currently developing. Would love to hear folks' feedback. Would you be excited about using this? "A social app, like Tinder but for hangouts with friends. See what your friends want to do, and swipe right to show you’re interested. You can also join hangouts in the global feed to instantly expand your social circle. Hangouts a…

Great idea, I'd do it somewhat like this if i had a large enough team: features needed to be successful: --STack overflow/HN/Reddit style Rep or magical internet points: These things are important, look how compelling they are for people to go out of their way to do things.... If you can tap into this so people go out of their way... to leave their house and socialize. even if its superficial for internet points, its…

Wow, you've listed three things I absolutely hate. Perhaps I'm simply not cut out for human interaction.

Re: Modern life is lonely – We all need someone to help

#147

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

ThePadawan wrote: post #119
peterburkimsher wrote: post #2

"needing some comfort, had been showered instead with practical solutions to a practical problem, which had just upset her even more" When something bad happens to someone you care about, don't say "What happened?" That focuses on the problem. Maybe they don't want to talk about it. Ask "Are you OK?" You can always say this even if there's nothing wrong. If they say "Yes, why?", they're your friend. If they say "Fine…

Unfortunately, "I'm fine" is a strongly ingrained default reaction in some circles. I feel this largely depends on culture (e.g. the British 'stiff upper lip' ideal) and negative media influence (personally, I'm thinking of the misguided idea of 'real men don't cry'). How do we get through that barrier?

"I'm fine" is the default reaction because we've learned that the asker almost never genuinely gives a shit.

Re: Modern life is lonely – We all need someone to help

#148

Post by dnissley »

bbctol wrote: post #78
unabst wrote: post #37

We're paying the price for the proliferation of existentialism, and it's flavor of capitalism and justice. "You're on your own" is good when reaping rewards and thriving in a meritocracy, but not when you need help, are losing, or just want warmth. But a healthy dose of loneliness is what has us reaching for each other. So we should all just give in, and reach for each other. Natural feeling tend to take care of them…

How are you defining "existentialism" here?

I think they mean nihilism.

Re: Modern life is lonely – We all need someone to help

#149

Post by AnimalMuppet »

Bartweiss wrote: post #122
workthrowaway27 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many of the people down voting you realize Ted Kaczynski is the unabomber? (I couldn't read the article since it's blocked by work firewall, so I can't comment on it).

Is the implication that people knowing that would be more or less likely to downvote? I mean, Kaczynski was certainly not writing calm and evidence-based prose, but he's regularly cited as saying something seminal and interesting regardless. I don't think "there's no evidence, that's pure propaganda" is untrue , but it feels like a strange objection to raise for anyone aware of what the work is. Aren't manifestos usu…

I criticize Kaczynski's philosophy because it drove him to try to kill people (and he succeeded at least once). I don't care how "seminal" and "interesting" it is. To me, his philosophy is condemned by where it led him.

(Yes, I realize that a different person could have raised the same ideas without using a bombing campaign to try to publicize them...)

Re: Modern life is lonely – We all need someone to help

#150

Post by dominotw »

wenc wrote: post #145
dominotw wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say fooling your mind is not easy. Definition of mind is "something that seeks" to want a "mind that doesn't seek" is meaningless and absurd. Its like wanting a nose that doesn't breathe. Sure you can come up with various philosophies like stoicism, Buddhism ect but you are merely trading one loop of seeking for another. Now you are stuck in a 'non-seeking' loop and failure to achieve 'non-seeking'.

> I would say fooling your mind is not easy. Just responding to this: fooling your mind is not hard. Even very rational, skeptical minds engage in self deception all the time. Our minds are so unbelievably malleable. We are all wired to be prone to biases and unexamined schemas. These just look different for rational types. On the other hand, it is possible to achieve results by not fooling your mind, but simply by r…

> reframing one's own thoughts.

Who is this entity that is reframing the your thoughts. Is it also not you? This is some sort of psychotic thinking to divide yourself into many parts, one part passing judgments and rulings on the other. This sort of thinking of is at the root of why we are so conflicted and full of suffering. This just perpetuates that style of thinking without examining why we are so divided in the first place.

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