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Facebook Can’t Cope with the World It’s Created

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: Facebook Can’t Cope with the World It’s Created

#141

Post by yequalsx »

herbst wrote: post #135

As much as I dislike Facebook. We have to stop to tell them they are responsible for anything. It's fully our fault whatever one can say is Facebooks. Everything else is just censorship and just as bad. There is no such thing as responsible censorship. One side will always get pissed and who are we or Facebook to decide what's right.

I strongly disagree that there is no such thing as responsible censorship. Furthermore censorship is not always, "...just as bad."

As an extreme example of good censorship look at child pornography. We have laws that prohibit speech in the form of harassment. Some countries prohibit anti-abortion protestors from harassing women trying to get an abortion. There are lots of cases where censorship is good.

Re: Facebook Can’t Cope with the World It’s Created

#142

Post by herbst »

ashleyn wrote: post #138
herbst wrote: post #135

As much as I dislike Facebook. We have to stop to tell them they are responsible for anything. It's fully our fault whatever one can say is Facebooks. Everything else is just censorship and just as bad. There is no such thing as responsible censorship. One side will always get pissed and who are we or Facebook to decide what's right.

If it's a fully private entity like Facebook, is it truly "censorship" in the derisive sense that we associate with it? If a user on Facebook posts aggressive and distasteful white identity propaganda which begins alienating other users, do Facebook and its advertisers not have the right to use the platform they created to exclude such content should they desire to do so? Does a fictitious "right to be heard" from a…

This is exactly censorship. If people want to listen They listen. If not than not. Pretty selecting based on YOUR opinion is and always will be censorship

Re: Facebook Can’t Cope with the World It’s Created

#143

Post by ams6110 »

InternetOfStuff wrote: post #99
saas_co_de wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is interesting that the author sees no place in the modern world for the kind of free speech enshrined in the U.S. Constitution. They are happy with a giant global monopolist controlling all speech, as long as they use that power to enforce their political agenda. That is an incredibly dangerous mindset and one that seems to be becoming more pervasive in respectable circles.

> Yes, it is interesting that the author sees no place in the modern world for the kind of free speech enshrined in the U.S. Constitution. Well, there is such a place. The U.S. However, in Germany, German rules of speech apply. As a German, I consider this a good thing. And remember, the German constitution was written at the pleasure of the allies -- the US were apparently quite happy with the way our constitution b…

> US were apparently quite happy

That's not necessarily the case. They may have accepted it as a best compromise, as they did the division of Germany into East and West.

Re: Facebook Can’t Cope with the World It’s Created

#144

Post by ThomPete »

ethbro wrote: post #130
ThomPete wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So arent you saying the same as me?

I'd say that's the opposite. The borderline conspiracy theories that seem popular are pretty different than "the garbage needs to be picked up on time" locally important issues that I thought you were talking about.

Not sure what you are commenting on

Re: Facebook Can’t Cope with the World It’s Created

#145

Post by tgragnato »

grzm wrote: post #128
chroem- wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why would the difference between populism/democracy even be a useful distinction to make if both served the interests of "the commom man" equally?

One measure of a functioning democracy is how it approaches compromise between differing opinions and respecting the rights of those who don't agree with you. Actively pitting one group against another works against this. It can easily lead to what's known as the tyranny of the majority: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

On the other hand some people are worried about the rise of a ruling elite centralized in government, media, and universities, with a partial influence and cooperation of the military industry. The deep state.

This group of decision-makers would like the public to think they operate on behalf of the interest of the state and act on the basis of "scientific principles".

Arguing that this is essentialy social control and that this constitutes the basis of the "tyranny of the elite" may not be flawed.

There's always the need of a balance between extreme tendencies. The liberal premise that the political elite has the right and obligation to make fundamental decisions on behalf of the mass of citizens has its limits.

Re: Facebook Can’t Cope with the World It’s Created

#146

Post by weepingprophet »

saas_co_de wrote: post #117
InternetOfStuff wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, it is interesting that the author sees no place in the modern world for the kind of free speech enshrined in the U.S. Constitution. Well, there is such a place. The U.S. However, in Germany, German rules of speech apply. As a German, I consider this a good thing. And remember, the German constitution was written at the pleasure of the allies -- the US were apparently quite happy with the way our constitution b…

> Well, there is such a place. The U.S. That is sort of the point. Once all speech transits corporate networks and those corporations are empowered to censor that speech then the public square protected by the U.S. Constitution no longer exists.

But Facebook already "censors" algorithmically. You are not shown a democratic slice from a marketplace of opinions. You are given a curated echo chamber of voices algorithmically optimized to keep you engaged/enraged. The voices that rise to the top are either the ones with the deepest pockets or the ones that most activate the lizard part of our brains.

Re: Facebook Can’t Cope with the World It’s Created

#147

Post by makecheck »

I think it would be interesting if online personas worked a little bit like video game characters. For instance, in an RPG, no one would believe a character could be equally effective at wielding heavy weapons and casting spells, or other tasks: you generally have to pick one or two key areas of expertise and be “OK at best” when anything else comes along.

Yet somehow, in the world of online discourse, everyone’s an equal expert on everything? What are the odds that a person really has good knowledge of both nuclear physics and farming?

If you could only post or upvote things that were considered relevant to a few limited areas of expertise in your profile, we would see a very different online world. Suddenly, seeing an article on the front page on a certain topic might actually mean that it got there due to “likes” from people with relevant experience, and not just whatever random definitely-not-statistically-valid sample of “friends” put it there.

Re: Facebook Can’t Cope with the World It’s Created

#148

Post by libertyEQ »

paradite wrote: post #111

I know this comment might attract a lot of hate, but I will put it here anyway. The main reason why Facebook is not in China is that Chinese government wishes to regulate Facebook while Facebook (like Google) refuses to obey. In some ways, Chinese government was right in the judgement that unfiltered and unregulated freedom of speech bring its own problems. And now the Western free world is starting to see these prob…

>And now the Western free world is starting to see these problems and impose regulations.

This has not happened in the US, and it is only the authoritarian types that you are hearing from even discussing the idea. In fact, the current administration is dismantling the somewhat light-handed regulation imposed by the previous admin.

Re: Facebook Can’t Cope with the World It’s Created

#149

Post by zerostar07 »

If it wouldn't be facebook it would be something else. The bigger issue here is that the completely-decentralized or completely-centralized civil society of the earth that the internet creates is incompatible with the way the world is run for the past 2 centuries.

Re: Facebook Can’t Cope with the World It’s Created

#150

Post by matte_black »

jondubois wrote: post #123
matte_black wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize for them to make any profit off of “shares” they’d have to sell them back to someone willing to buy them... That’s aside from the fact that whole idea is ridiculous to begin with.

The government would own the shares and make money from the dividends. Why is it ridiculous? The government of many countries have taken possession of many companies and land titles in the past for the benefit of society.

Facebook does not pay a dividend.

And what makes you think if the government did something like that Facebook wouldn’t just pack up and leave the country? They are a global company.

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