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How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

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Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#141

Post by tombert »

arca_vorago wrote: post #21

This is a single symptom of a larger issue, namely an excess of laws to the point that any law can be arbitrarily used to prosecute you if you are of an unwanted class, race, etc. Add on top the police quota system and you have a recipe of this type of injustice that runs the gamut, from antiquidated knife laws to the drug war. To me, this is largely a result of lawyers fucking ruining everything they touch, and then…

You want to put lawyers in jail because they advocate a "bad law"? It was congress and the president who actually voted for it and signed it into practice, and it was the cops' selective enforcement that is the bigger problem. How on earth did you extract "lawyers are awful" from this?

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#142

Post by winter_blue »

specialp wrote: post #15

My brother got charged as a result this law as the police wanted information about one of his friends. It is enforced very selectively too. If you can swing it down very hard and it opens, it is a gravity knife and thus criminal possession of a weapon. It is a bad law, and according to their definition nearly every pocket knife is a gravity knife. There was an effort to repeal it, but for some reason governor Cuomo d…

Well, here's a quote from your link that shows that governor Cuomo didn't veto it because he was in favor of putting innocent people behind bars. He actually just wanted the law to be even more clear:

"In response to the Governor’s objections to last year’s bill, this year’s bill removes “centrifugal force” from the definition of a gravity knife and adds “solely” to create a bright-line definition that even overzealous New York City law enforcement and prosecutors can understand, as desired by the Governor. It would preclude the unconstitutionally vague “wrist flick” test that has resulted in over 60,000 arrests and prosecutions in New York City which the Governor himself described as “absurd” in vetoing last year’s bill on New Year’s Eve."

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#144

Post by adekok »

MertsA wrote: post #109
arca_vorago wrote: post #21

This is a single symptom of a larger issue, namely an excess of laws to the point that any law can be arbitrarily used to prosecute you if you are of an unwanted class, race, etc. Add on top the police quota system and you have a recipe of this type of injustice that runs the gamut, from antiquidated knife laws to the drug war. To me, this is largely a result of lawyers fucking ruining everything they touch, and then…

> I shouldn't talk about GPL licensing because only lawyers understand licensing! Clearly that person has never read the GPL, all of the legalese is clearly explained in the license. The GPL has always been my go to as an example of an easy to read and understand legal document.

> Clearly that person has never read the GPL,

It's not about "reading the GPL". It's about power.

If the only people allowed to decide morality / ethics / legality are lawyers, then they have power, and you don't. This is fantastic for the people in power. Less so for you.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#145

Post by curun1r »

mattmanser wrote: post #66
xkcd-sucks wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The officer said, ‘When I find someone with one of these knives, sometimes I arrest him, sometimes I give him a summons, sometimes I just let him go.’ ” Galluzzo’s partner, Zachary Johnson, also a former district attorney in Manhattan, adds that such discretion is supposed to be exercised by prosecutors, not cops on the beat . “An officer should be making an arrest every time or none of the time,” Johnson says. “Oth…

I don't understand. Why is it fair if that decision just happens a bit further up the chain? What's the difference?

Beyond the other answers you've received that mention the paper trail, district attorneys are elected officials and police officers aren't. The citizens of a city choose the district attorney as a proxy to make decisions for them. They don't have that input when it comes to choosing police officers. The competitiveness of local elections and the level to which voters are informed aside, that is an important difference.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#146

Post by greedo »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #58
arca_vorago wrote: post #21

This is a single symptom of a larger issue, namely an excess of laws to the point that any law can be arbitrarily used to prosecute you if you are of an unwanted class, race, etc. Add on top the police quota system and you have a recipe of this type of injustice that runs the gamut, from antiquidated knife laws to the drug war. To me, this is largely a result of lawyers fucking ruining everything they touch, and then…

>The officer said, ‘When I find someone with one of these knives, sometimes I arrest him, sometimes I give him a summons, sometimes I just let him go.’ ” Galluzzo’s partner, Zachary Johnson, also a former district attorney in Manhattan, adds that such discretion is supposed to be exercised by prosecutors, not cops on the beat . “An officer should be making an arrest every time or none of the time,” Johnson says. “Oth…

The last thing the world needs is cops that don't have discretion. Imagine when our AI robot overlords are in LE; the number of citations/arrests will go through the rough since most Americans break a law or regulation on a daily basis.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#147

Post by curun1r »

everybodyknows wrote: post #108
newsmania wrote: post #18

Cops get a bad rap, but the DAs haven’t come under fire. They knowingly ruin many many more innocent lives than cops. And unlike cops who may shoot in a poor split second decision, DAs knowingly and willingly destroy the lives of the innocent for their own personal gain. It’s time we put blame where it is due.

DAs are rewarded for convictions, the heavier the charge the better. Police are rewarded for arrests. Only one of those two drops the blight of a criminal record onto someone's future. What we as citizens can do is demand that elected officials hold DAs accountable for their wrongful convictions.

> What we as citizens can do is demand that elected officials hold DAs accountable for their wrongful convictions

Way to pass the buck. In 47 states, district attorney is an elected office, not an appointment. If we want better behavior from district attorneys, we need citizens to be better at monitoring that behavior and holding them accountable.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#149

Post by empath75 »

greedo wrote: post #146
xkcd-sucks wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The officer said, ‘When I find someone with one of these knives, sometimes I arrest him, sometimes I give him a summons, sometimes I just let him go.’ ” Galluzzo’s partner, Zachary Johnson, also a former district attorney in Manhattan, adds that such discretion is supposed to be exercised by prosecutors, not cops on the beat . “An officer should be making an arrest every time or none of the time,” Johnson says. “Oth…

The last thing the world needs is cops that don't have discretion. Imagine when our AI robot overlords are in LE; the number of citations/arrests will go through the rough since most Americans break a law or regulation on a daily basis.

If we have too many laws then the problem is the laws. If cops were arresting white drug users at the rate they arrest minorities, drugs would have been legal years ago.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#150

Post by lend000 »

wdr1 wrote: post #122
RealityNow wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely absurd that "arrest quotas" are even a thing in America. The job of the police in most first world countries is to protect the people, not make arrests for ludicrous laws. I don't want my tax dollars funding police officers camping out on highways to hand out speeding tickets or arresting random people for having pocket knives on them. No wonder Americans have such an adversarial relationship with the…

"Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form. It's also worth noting in many areas arrest quotas are outright illegal. What departments do typically do is look at distributions. Say on a Friday evening shift, over the past 12 month period, a typical officer typically has 16-18 speeding stops. However,…

A ticket quota is the same principle, and those are apparently the norm.
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