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More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

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141–150 of 298 posts

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#141
post #108

I hate sounding both old and weird but I cannot shake the feeling that much of the claims of economic health and growth in the US is... if not fake (I’m not totally nuts) but not accurate. My most charitable interpretation if I’m right is that we’re using the wrong metrics (possibly intentionally) that give a distorted view of the economy. But I keep hearing employment is great, productivity is great, stock market is…

I live in a city on one of the coasts and the growth right now is out of control.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#142
post #108

I hate sounding both old and weird but I cannot shake the feeling that much of the claims of economic health and growth in the US is... if not fake (I’m not totally nuts) but not accurate. My most charitable interpretation if I’m right is that we’re using the wrong metrics (possibly intentionally) that give a distorted view of the economy. But I keep hearing employment is great, productivity is great, stock market is…

Sure it's fake. Our economic models are so out of touch with reality, it's a wonder the system works at all. We treat digital goods the same as physical goods, we spend tons of money to prop up giant failing structures instead of letting them fall apart, we let those that make the most walk away without paying their fair share, we subsidize stuff that nobody wants and is harmful to us, and aren't even close to making anyone pay for externalities accurately.

I feel like we're headed into a really deep economic downturn, but hey, at least we have plenty of golden parachutes for the rich!

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#144
post #139

The reason is that people have been spending absurd amounts of money on worthless degrees and can’t afford to pay them back.

Would be interesting to see a breakdown of repayment rate by major

And also graduation rate.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#145
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of lessened "value" of degrees, University's need to be held accountable for some of the debt that they are encouraging students to take on. For example, at my public university, STEM students were charges several thousand dollars a year more than humanities students. STEM programs also did their best to discourage enrollment. Meanwhile the anthropology department is literally begging students to stay and ge…

> STEM students were charges several thousand dollars a year more than humanities students. That actually seems more equitable to me than what happens at some other schools, where everyone pays the same credit-hour rate no matter what course they take. Teaching STEM courses, intuitively, seems like it should cost more. The pool of professors and TAs is smaller, a lot of courses call for lab equipment and the maintain…

The higher cost of delivering classes with a lab component is generally solved via lab fees. This seems a much better solution than raising the cost per credit hour.

Also, some STEM-type departments get grants (public and private) at a rate that's much greater than liberal arts departments, and grant recipients have to tithe back a large portion to their parent institution in a way that defrays facilities costs, etc. So there are other sources of income besides student tuition.

If you started treating departments as P&L centers, I don't know that I'd want to be in Anthropology vs. MechE.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is kind of a nonsensical question but please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Imagine you and I agree to a deal, both verbally and contractually (i.e. on paper). I give you 10 euros and you pay me back 11 euros in exactly 1 year. Now 6 months into the deal you suddenly ask yourself: "Well who would lose out when this debt gets cancelled?" Do you see now why I think it is a nonsensical question?

Sure, it would seem obvious that the loaner is the one to lose out. The things it, I'm not sure who all the various loaners are these days or how much the economy itself would be affected by these people suddenly not having $1.3 trillion (or whatever the figure is these days) coming to them.

The question is can future students get any loans to finance their studies then (or at what rates/conditions? Good chance they would lose out too.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#147
post #67
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key is a marketable college degree. In fields such as aerospace and defense where the credential is the key to open the door, get the credential as cheaply as possible. Do a couple of years at a community college and then finish at a state school. Name-brand degrees bring no extra value. Oh yeah, and get your master’s while you’re still in the zone. The idea that trade school somehow is lower tier or oppressive i…

There are plenty of fields where name-brand degrees mean a crap ton starting out, e.g. finance, law.

Those are on the higher end of risk (and upside potential). Would only do it if some else foots the bill, eg parents.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#149

Why have MOOCs provided no real competition?

They are starting to. GaTech's OSMCS program cost (~$8k total) a fraction of the on campus (~$30k year in-state). With any entrenched system it takes a while to see change. Especially something like Education that is afraid of change and is very slow to change existing ways.

I even wonder if much will change with colleges and higher education by the time I have kids and they then are college age. A lot will change from now until ~20 years when my potential kids will be college bound. However, I'll definitely be looking at biggest potential on ROI for tuition costs etc.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#150

Tie student loans to educational institutions where the study takes place. If the student fails to repay, a %age of the student loan debt should be paid for, by the edu institution where he/she graduated from. Would be great if it is 50%. Even if university doubles the price, demand/supply economics will ensure universities cannot bump fees up at will. Without holding the educational institutions and the students as…

I've never thought of it that way. I don't know if there wouldn't be some second or third order issues from something like this, but at first glance this seems like a good idea. Why shouldn't the school take on some of the risk?

The schools would undoubtedly respond that in doing so, they would necessarily have to stop educating people from anything less than the most privileged (and thus low-risk) backgrounds.

You'd need to cook up some sort of risk-pooling scheme if you wanted schools to extend that credit to anyone coming from a background that made payment statistically less-likely. And once you started doing that you'd have to be careful not to distort the market so much that the original intent -- to allow market forces to have more say on what majors college students go into, and who (and how many people) colleges admit -- would be totally lost.

It's a difficult problem and I don't know if it's better to have the schools/colleges trying to underwrite the loans. It might be better to leave that to specialists rather than force it onto schools (though forcing schools to release the data that an underwriter would need to rationally price loans for students to go there would be good).

If you didn't have the government backstopping student loans, and in some cases making them non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, that would probably have much the same effect. The government backing and unique legal treatment are what makes a "student loan" different than a giant personal loan. The justification has always been that without this treatment and guarantee, nobody would make a $100k+ personal loan to an 18-year-old, which is probably true. But I think we're starting to see the other side of the coin, which is that maybe there are some good reasons why that's the case.

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