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Facebook’s war on free will

theguardian.com

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Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#141

Post by lushn »

root_axis wrote: post #101

I wish people would stop contributing to the Facebook mythos that elevates a social media platform into some kind of software based deity. It's just a website, it's not a threat to "free will" any more than a cigarette or coke addiction is a threat to "free will". People recite grand expositions regarding how "I stopped using facebook and it changed my life forever! I've never looked back!"... wonderful, but I want t…

THANK YOU.

I find the "I deleted Facebook" meme incredibly odd. It's a website, you don't have to visit. You don't have to check/install the app. Do you really have no free will of your own?

Yes, the feed can be annoying, so just fill it up with things you like. Unfollow annoying people, like pages and groups that interest you, and suddenly your feed changes entirely.

If you have to delete Facebook to stop checking it, the issue is with you, not with Facebook. Facebook rapidly gets pretty bland and monotonous. It's useful, but not that interesting. Facebook wish it had as much power over you as some people seem to think it has.

Yes, I'm sure I'll be downvoted into oblivion, but honestly I've given up with this site. If you're not anti Facebook, pro libertarian, anti Microsoft, anti advertising...etc. you're not part of the 20 something know-it-all SV echo chamber and so get downvoted.

Yes, I know it's redundant but I think this is the last time I'll log in here. The echo chamber and shocking lack of pragmatism and common sense displayed on this website makes me think I'm living in a different world to the opinions displayed here.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#142

Post by tadufre »

These phone companies are terrible. All they want to do is make money off of their customers. I stopped using phones to communicate a couple of months ago. My real friends still send me telegrams.

These telegraph companies are terrible. All they want to do is make money ...

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#143

Post by nql »

firmgently wrote: post #126
raverbashing wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you making this comment has been inevitable?

Modern mainstream science does not allow for the existence of free will. Materialism (everything is physical) and Determinism (everything that ever happens is an inevitable and ultimately predictable consequence of The Big Bang) reign in contemporary thought. Free will is largely considered to be an illusion or psychological trick (see eg. Daniel C. Dennett 'Freedom Evolves') and several studies have shown that decis…

The non-existence of free will has no direct policy implication. Since people are deterministic, the knowledge of punishments would create different behaviors.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#144

Post by mrec »

katzgrau wrote: post #106
adjkant wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I think the right company with the right marketing could make Facebook completely irrelevant. All you'd need is a basic address book/profile functionality + basic messaging + event planning. Perhaps a use as a universal login, as many do like that. They would lose a ton of users if the network effect would catch on, which is obviously the big hurdle. It would also be a curious case of brands being left with…

FB's tentacles are so deeply embedded in everything that I'm not sure a classic tech death from a disruptor is possible. Only a long and slow decline over a period of 5, maybe even 10 years.

If Zuck does end up making a Presidential run, I think that'd have a very good chance of triggering a sizeable decline in its US userbase.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#145

Post by root_axis »

firmgently wrote: post #126
raverbashing wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you making this comment has been inevitable?

Modern mainstream science does not allow for the existence of free will. Materialism (everything is physical) and Determinism (everything that ever happens is an inevitable and ultimately predictable consequence of The Big Bang) reign in contemporary thought. Free will is largely considered to be an illusion or psychological trick (see eg. Daniel C. Dennett 'Freedom Evolves') and several studies have shown that decis…

I agree with everything you've written except this:

> The world has a serious problem to resolve here because if there truly is no free will then there is no justification for punishing people for their actions - they had no choice in the matter... in which case the criminal justice system is barbaric and unfounded.

"Free will" has no impact on the role of the justice system. Punishment is based on the circumstances surrounding intent and behavior, it doesn't matter if one "willingly" (in the free will sense) commits a premeditated homicide or one was "determined" to be the type of person that commits a premeditated homicide, either way, deterring and punishing that behavior is the intended goal of the justice system. The faculties of mind that we regard as possible mitigating factors in the administration of justice are unaffected by any philosophical conclusions regarding the nature of free will.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#146

Post by jerkstate »

Woofles wrote: post #112
52-6F-62 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left Facebook about two years ago now. I nearly immediately lost contact with all of the people I'd spent my time with in the city (outside of work). I don't chase them down for other reasons, but it is striking how much it supplanted everything else. After returning an old work phone I'd made the mistake of not copying all of their numbers over. I moved elsewhere within the city, and so I don't run into them in th…

I think the happy medium here, where you can still keep in touch with people but not get sucked into checking it all the time, is deleting the app from your phone. It used to be habit for me to unlock my phone and if I didn't have anything to do, just open the app and begin scrolling. Once that wasn't easily accessible I stopped completely. Now I only go on Facebook if I have a reason to, like looking someone up or c…

Maybe that's the happy medium for you, but for others, the happy medium is emailing, calling, or texting your friends to set up a dinner party or a round of golf, making sure to call your folks every week or two, and not worrying too much about those whose only effort to spend time with you is having clicked a button months/years ago.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#147

Post by tallanvor »

jerkstate wrote: post #146
Woofles wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the happy medium here, where you can still keep in touch with people but not get sucked into checking it all the time, is deleting the app from your phone. It used to be habit for me to unlock my phone and if I didn't have anything to do, just open the app and begin scrolling. Once that wasn't easily accessible I stopped completely. Now I only go on Facebook if I have a reason to, like looking someone up or c…

Maybe that's the happy medium for you, but for others, the happy medium is emailing, calling, or texting your friends to set up a dinner party or a round of golf, making sure to call your folks every week or two, and not worrying too much about those whose only effort to spend time with you is having clicked a button months/years ago.

If you don't communicate with the people, you can unfriend them.

I'm only on there for messenger now - calling is expensive when your friends are in different countries, and while texting is mostly free these days, it costs money when traveling. Email... People just don't check it as much anymore. So you're left with messenger.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#148

Post by htrp »

dabockster wrote: post #132
katzgrau wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FB's tentacles are so deeply embedded in everything that I'm not sure a classic tech death from a disruptor is possible. Only a long and slow decline over a period of 5, maybe even 10 years.

> I'm not sure a classic tech death from a disruptor is possible Well, FB's brand itself is super toxic these days, so you could probably build something on the whole "we're not FB" premise

diaspora tried that.... it has next to 0 adoption

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#149

Post by bgun »

tastythrowaway wrote: post #139

at what point do we stop blaming facebook and start blaming ourselves?

This is a trope and not useful for solving problems of culture, psychology, or addiction. It is the same as saying "when you ban guns, only criminals will have guns" or "everyone has a choice, so choose not to do drugs". These are vapid recitations and cannot address complex issues.

Re: Facebook’s war on free will

#150

Post by philh »

ElatedOwl wrote: post #99
artursapek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it seems like there's a thread on HN every week where half of us jump in to share our story. I haven't been on FB in over 5 years and am much happier without it. That said, I have other more tolerable addictions (like reddit).

My only issue with Reddit the amount of astroturfing that takes place. Take a look at a community like /r/fitness, and you get a lot of people recommending a lifting program that requires you purchase a book. The worst part is, once it's been brought up enough (read: astroturfed enough), users naturally start to parrot it to fit in.

I'm not saying there's definitely no astroturfing there, but that doesn't sound like strong evidence of it.
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