Current Data Science Student at Galvenize in Phoenix here. I came from a mix of technologies (approximate knowledge, but a master of none) before settling into the data sciences (Python ecosystem). Galvenize has been precisely the challenge I was looking for and so much more. I barely got by the interview process, but picked up a Veteran Scholarship worth half my $16,000 tuition along the way. Quit my job as a Salesf…
As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check
141–150 of 289 posts
Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check
#142As someone who interviewed dozens of bootcampers I can give some insight. 1) Most of the bootcamps teach the basic of front-end, and a lot of them, teach by doing without explaining a lot of basic concepts. They are basically money grabbers and throw these people out of the door as fast as possible to get their money back. 2) A lot of the students are in for the money, not for the love of the job. Sorry, but it's tru…
> A lot of the students are in for the money, not for the love of the job. Who cares? Can they do the job or not? Do they have the work ethic and professionalism to continue to do so? The vast majority of people, including those who excel at their respective fields, don't love their jobs. This industry needs to stop using "passion" as a lazy signal for work ethic. > The most boring developers I work with, the the one…
This field changes so much that if you aren't passionate and investing in your skills continuously, you will find yourself obsolete or in a non-technical role within 5-7 years. Think about that. How many years does it take just to become technically proficient?
Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check
#143As someone who interviewed dozens of bootcampers I can give some insight. 1) Most of the bootcamps teach the basic of front-end, and a lot of them, teach by doing without explaining a lot of basic concepts. They are basically money grabbers and throw these people out of the door as fast as possible to get their money back. 2) A lot of the students are in for the money, not for the love of the job. Sorry, but it's tru…
The most boring category is interesting... I might fall in to that category. Any advice to be "less boring"?
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Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check
#144I realize everyone is generalizing but it's easy to lose sight of something really simple: Different jobs require different skills. Not everyone on the team needs to know how to make complicated architecture decisions or write the most efficient sorting algorithm. Personally, I'm happy when there is someone on my team who can do the things I find boring...even if they don't have a "passionate" interest in learning more.
Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check
#145As someone who interviewed dozens of bootcampers I can give some insight. 1) Most of the bootcamps teach the basic of front-end, and a lot of them, teach by doing without explaining a lot of basic concepts. They are basically money grabbers and throw these people out of the door as fast as possible to get their money back. 2) A lot of the students are in for the money, not for the love of the job. Sorry, but it's tru…
I agree with all the points you made, except for a part of the third one. This "started coding in middle/high school or college" is a misleading metric since it assumes everyone has equal access and support to learn that way. As some one from India who never had own computer until finishing college (the early 00's), along with no internet or cell phone, I find it hard to accept/respect those people who gloat about ho…
It's also unfortunate that everyone defaults to measuring the years that have elapsed since someone's first line of code, instead of hours invested.
"N years experience" loses value as a measuring stick when there are probably 2 orders of magnitude separating how much code the most passionate and least passionate developers wrote in that time frame.
Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was a 'team' effort. So, when you go look at the git history of the 'project', you can see who in the team actually contributed. Usually, it wasn't the person looking for a job. Then you wonder, ok, maybe shared computer... which makes it even harder to figure out. How is that a win for people who are paying tons of money to get an 'education'? I believe strongly that software engineering is an art form that requi…
Idempotency is a good example of a trivia term that would be unreasonable to expect most recent CS graduates to know. Not to say that it's not a valuable property for a service or library or whatever to have under certain circumstances-- but it's not a reasonable way to decide whether a candidate for a junior position is a good fit.
Huh, I did a diploma in computing (UK) in my spare time about 12-16 years ago and remember covering it in a databases module (and possibly when doing OOP with Smalltalk?) - I'd go with "it's about repeatability, knowing that sending the same request, eg SQL query, will return the same results".
That's a little off the mark, as I've checked, but I'd think a full-time CS (as opposed to programming or computing or IT) student would be able to define it very readily ...?
Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A lot of the students are in for the money, not for the love of the job. Who cares? Can they do the job or not? Do they have the work ethic and professionalism to continue to do so? The vast majority of people, including those who excel at their respective fields, don't love their jobs. This industry needs to stop using "passion" as a lazy signal for work ethic. > The most boring developers I work with, the the one…
This field changes so much that if you aren't passionate and investing in your skills continuously, you will find yourself obsolete or in a non-technical role within 5-7 years. Think about that. How many years does it take just to become technically proficient?
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Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then how come our salaries are so high in the bay area? There is certainly a geographic shortage at least, right? Perhaps those people in the UK need to move to a location where their skills are more in demand.
> bay area > Perhaps those people in the UK need to move to a location It is very difficult and tedious process to go to work from EU to US. Also, most EU residents don't even want to live in US.
First world problem if there is any.
It's a lot easier than from most of non-EU world: at least you can hop on the plane for a job interview without fussing with visas.
If one can't be arsed to move there's always an option to remain unemployed.
Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been working with computers all my life. I made static HTML/CSS/JS websites back in the 1990s before I'd hit puberty. I never learnt how to code though, but I know a lot of technical stuff. So I legitimately thought that "hey, I can learn to code in a few months" Nope. 12 weeks is hilariously less to truly understand coding. You can, at most, mimic the actions of the teacher. It took me quitting, then months of…
It makes me wonder if 12 weeks in a startup accelerator is also not enough time to truly understand how to run a business, either.
Well like coding, the only way to learn how to run a business is to do it and pour all your time and energy into it for years and years.
Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
> bay area > Perhaps those people in the UK need to move to a location It is very difficult and tedious process to go to work from EU to US. Also, most EU residents don't even want to live in US.
First world problem if there is any. It's a lot easier than from most of non-EU world: at least you can hop on the plane for a job interview without fussing with visas. If one can't be arsed to move there's always an option to remain unemployed.
The problem is that for a company to justify giving H1B visa the candidate must be really good.
I'm not so sure that those 13% unemployed are really good.