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How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

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Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#141

Post by alkonaut »

kuschku wrote: post #104
alkonaut wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a new laptop is slow something must be wrong. Such as it having a mechanical disk. It might not seem like a big problem but it's almost a complete no go with win 10. If there are performance issues/freezing on a machine with 8GB and SSD then something is wrong and you should contact the manufacturer, chances are a bios or driver update will fix it

Oh, so you're offering to buy me an SSD for Windows 10? That's so nice of you! /s If it doesn't work on a mechanical drive, it's fucking broken.

I didn't understand the question here (the /s was lost on me because I'm slow probably)

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#142

Post by reitanqild »

eterm wrote: post #87
reitanqild wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brainstorming with you: Maybe we could have another queue /possiblespam like we have for /newest? Or we could make a competition out of it: 1point for a correct spam identification -10 for false positive

This is way off topic, but that kind of simple gamification is "broken" because there are three Nash equilibrium, only one of which is actually marking spam correctly. If everyone marks everything as spam, then anyone not also doing the same is "punished" because they are missing out on points they could get by marking more things as spam. If everyone is marking everything as "not spam" then anyone marking spam as sp…

In theory this sounds fine.

Bit here are two factors that together makes scenario 1 and 2 unlikely to play out IMO:

HN users seems to be a constructive crowd

and

mods only need to punish a few accounts visibly for users to be deterred from trying this.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#143

Post by alkonaut »

thriftwy wrote: post #105
alkonaut wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a new laptop is slow something must be wrong. Such as it having a mechanical disk. It might not seem like a big problem but it's almost a complete no go with win 10. If there are performance issues/freezing on a machine with 8GB and SSD then something is wrong and you should contact the manufacturer, chances are a bios or driver update will fix it

> Such as it having a mechanical disk. it's almost a complete no go with win 10 Why then do Windows 10 laptops get sold with HDDs? You come to store and that's what you get out of it. Also, Linux doesn't mind running from HDD. Not ten years ago, not now. Lesson to MS: Get your act together or get out of this business. Come back from make-believe world. MS is running on make-believe for the last 10 years. Windows 8, t…

> Why then do Windows 10 laptops get sold with HDDs?

Excellent question. These machines should do better with Win7 but Microsoft doesn't want to sell it.

Microsoft sells windows 10 and Microsoft sells laptops with Windows 10 on an SSD. I doubt (but do correct me if I'm wrong) Microsoft sells any computers with Windows 10 on a mechanical drive.

Various manufacturers sell underpowered computers with Win10 on it, but thats hardly microsofts fault. They do that because otherwise they can't hit the lowest price segments.

What IS Microsoft's fault:

1)Microsofts "hardware requirements" only say what's necessary to use it, not what's needed for a decent experience.

2) not selling Win7 or making newer versions of windows work with older hardware.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#144

Post by bb611 »

thriftwy wrote: post #71
chx wrote: post #66

Microsoft is playing a fantastic Linux game with putting Linux userspace on the Windows desktop where drivers and UI are far better than the Linux drivers and UI and putting SQL Server on Linux server where the Linux kernel is much stronger. They know their strengths and weaknesses and not afraid to play to them. Here's my writeup on setting up Windows 10 as a long, long time Linux user https://github.com/chx/chx.git…

Too bad that Windows 10 barely usable on itself. Every application looks different (yes they used to blame Linux/X11 on that one). It has two control panels (or three maybe), two web browsers shipped with it. Takes more than a minute to boot on a new and pretty formidable laptop. This is the fresh factory install. Can freeze the desktop while apparently doing something under the hood (installing updates? scanning mal…

My boot time on an SSD + i5 on my 4.5 year old desktop is Obviously, there is some variation in experience, and I doubt all of it can be chalked up to the OS.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#145

Post by snuxoll »

gwbas1c wrote: post #126
CrLf wrote: post #102

I'm still unsure of the usefulness of SQL Server on Linux. I don't see the point of running SQL Server on Linux (I'd rather choose PostgreSQL or something), nor do I see the point of choosing Linux if I'd already settled for SQL Server. I don't think this (in the end) is anything more than a marketing trick, there to give the illusion of choice. This is not uncommon in ISVs, btw. There are many commercial offerings t…

I work for a SAAS company that uses MS SQL. I've heard over an over that ops and management loves MS SQL but hates Windows. MS SQL is the product that people are choosing, not Windows. Why should the MS SQL team force people to choose Windows?

As much as I love PostgreSQL, which is a lot, MS SQL still has some exceptional functionality around business intelligence and handles large reporting warehouses with ease. We just purchased three UCS blades for a new SQL Server deployment to consolidate our existing databases and handle the data warehousing project we are starting, here I am wasting days writing ansible modules and roles to set everything up when I could just be templating out a couple config files if all the SQL Server components ran on Linux.

I'm incredibly happy Microsoft is bringing SQL Server to Linux as a DevOps person, I'm really hoping SSIS/SSAS/SSRS makes it in eventually because they're the only thing keeping me from saying we should be deploying the new cluster on Linux instead of Windows.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#146

Post by deadbunny »

alkonaut wrote: post #106
tkubacki wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to make things easy on Windows - it's law of nature.

It's actually not - if you try to avoid integrating in any way with the os. Shared-nothing apps are pretty nice. SQL server and a few of the other behemoth apps seem to have a very hard time staying separate from windows which is annoying. In Linux the design benefit is that there are package managers and the flaw is that there are many. Shipping a simple binary installer for multiple distributions is still tricky.

> Shipping a simple binary installer for multiple distributions is still tricky.

Because you're bypassing the package manager. Packaging isn't all that hard, much easier than building your own binary installer that handles multiple platforms.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#147

Post by JCharante »

thriftwy wrote: post #71
chx wrote: post #66

Microsoft is playing a fantastic Linux game with putting Linux userspace on the Windows desktop where drivers and UI are far better than the Linux drivers and UI and putting SQL Server on Linux server where the Linux kernel is much stronger. They know their strengths and weaknesses and not afraid to play to them. Here's my writeup on setting up Windows 10 as a long, long time Linux user https://github.com/chx/chx.git…

Too bad that Windows 10 barely usable on itself. Every application looks different (yes they used to blame Linux/X11 on that one). It has two control panels (or three maybe), two web browsers shipped with it. Takes more than a minute to boot on a new and pretty formidable laptop. This is the fresh factory install. Can freeze the desktop while apparently doing something under the hood (installing updates? scanning mal…

> Takes more than a minute to boot on a new and pretty formidable laptop. This is the fresh factory install.

Oh come on, you can't blame the OS for that. Whenever I want to play games my Desktop is loading the desktop in less than 20 seconds, it's not optimal but if it takes 1 minute there has to be something wrong with the laptop.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#148

Post by hungerstrike »

foodie_ wrote: post #124
djsumdog wrote: post #29

Years ago I was part of a project that became a startup. We got a Bizspark license and originally developed for MS SQL. Later we added in support for Postgres/MySQL. Running unit tests against Postgres/MySQL was pretty easy on my Linux box, but for MS SQL I'd have to start a VM and provision SQL Server 2012 (at the time). I jumped on the Linux version as soon as I heard about it. I never got an invite to the preview,…

Curious why have postgres and SQL server?

He said that they "originally developed for MS SQL." and then "Later we added in support for Postgres/MySQL."

Sounds like they develop a product that can use multiple RDBMS back-ends. Also, I'm guessing that since 90% of the businesses out there use Microsoft products, you would probably want to support their products in such a venture.

On a personal note, I find anything that's not SQL Server to be tedious to work with due to the lack of high quality GUIs, client tools and certain features.

For instance - did you know that Postgres can't easily return multiple resultsets? In SQL Server I just write one procedure containing multiple SELECT statements and my client code can get all of those resultsets with only one call to that procedure. This one feature alone cuts down on all sorts of boilerplate code and trips to the database.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#149

Post by protomyth »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #19
flukus wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rewrite, or a "rewrite"? I've seen plenty of press articles about something MS "rewrote" from the ground up, including windows itself, and they are never true. Unless they actually started from a blank source repository then it was not a rewrite.

i was there, from 1995 on. It was a real rewrite. sybase's optimizer was the biggest piece of shit ever. losing predicates, functions that called each other multiple times to rewrite the tree. We didn't have docs on the page formats, we have to reverse engineer it. The only piece not completely rewritten in the first release in 7.0 shipping in 1998 was the tree/algebraizer that was the input to the query processor. i…

> sybase's optimizer was the biggest piece of shit ever

Sybase even in the 11.5 days was horrible. Even with updated stats, it would drop off the cliff and you would suddenly have queries that took less than a second go to multiple minutes. It was the database where I had to force a lot of indexes. It really got confused with simple reference tables. Temporary tables were just plain problematic unless you did the trick of declaring them in the outer procedure and then calling another stored procedure to actually use the temp table.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#150

Post by tw04 »

thriftwy wrote: post #71
chx wrote: post #66

Microsoft is playing a fantastic Linux game with putting Linux userspace on the Windows desktop where drivers and UI are far better than the Linux drivers and UI and putting SQL Server on Linux server where the Linux kernel is much stronger. They know their strengths and weaknesses and not afraid to play to them. Here's my writeup on setting up Windows 10 as a long, long time Linux user https://github.com/chx/chx.git…

Too bad that Windows 10 barely usable on itself. Every application looks different (yes they used to blame Linux/X11 on that one). It has two control panels (or three maybe), two web browsers shipped with it. Takes more than a minute to boot on a new and pretty formidable laptop. This is the fresh factory install. Can freeze the desktop while apparently doing something under the hood (installing updates? scanning mal…

>Every application looks different (yes they used to blame Linux/X11 on that one). It has two control panels (or three maybe), two web browsers shipped with it.

So you want your cake and you want to eat it too? It's pretty well known that as part of the new iterative release cycle they're slowly moving things into the new "control panel". That's not going to happen overnight, and unless you want to go back to only seeing new releases every 4+ years, we're going to have to be patient.

>Takes more than a minute to boot on a new and pretty formidable laptop. This is the fresh factory install.

Then something is seriously broken with the laptop, or you're running off a spinning drive. Regardless, if boot time is your primary factor in choosing an OS, you're doing it wrong.

>Can freeze the desktop while apparently doing something under the hood (installing updates? scanning malware? summoning the devil?), without any indication as to why, and not come back in five minutes.

Between that and your boot times, I would imagine you've got a garbage hard drive. I've never had windows "Freeze the desktop for 5 minutes at a time". A quick google search also finds no relevant posts on other people experiencing the same behavior. Windows updates wouldn't freeze your desktop. Heck, video card driver updates will cause your screen to black out for a couple seconds, but not freeze for 5 minutes.

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