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Tesla Autopilot

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Re: Tesla Autopilot

#141

Post by jaimex2 »

Animats wrote: post #125
madaxe_again wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had to reverse early cars up hills due to their gravity fed fuel systems. Yet here we are, driving forwards up hills.

Compare Chris Urmson's SXSW talk from 2016 about Google's system.[1] Look carefully at the graphics which show what the sensors are detecting, and compare with Tesla's. Watch Urmson discuss hard cases, problems, and failures. Not seeing that with Tesla. Or Uber. Or Cruise. Or Otto. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj-rK8V-rik

Cool, when is it being released?

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#142

Post by elmigranto »

elmigranto wrote: post #134
jyrkesh wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? You don't see this as any different than iOS running on an iPhone? I can't use the iOS license on any other device, I can't run binaries on the device outside of what's available on the App Store. I'm wholly restricted to their rules on both the hardware and software sides of things.

I don't get what's the disagreement here. Apple sells you a whole system, iPhone + iOS. They don't sell you two things, like in PC world, for example, and that's different and that's okay as long as everyone is upfront about it. What I am saying is that Apple sells you a product. You own it. You can do whatever you want with it. Feel free to alter any part of it, just don't expect it to work or keep your warrantee. T…

In a nutshell, the difference is "sell" vs "license", "own" vs "rent".

You own your iPhone and you rent your Tesla Autopilot it seems.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#143

Post by whazor »

agumonkey wrote: post #127
wibr wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really believe that the hardware is enough for what they are trying to achieve. There is almost no redundancy e.g. on sensor level except for the front radar supporting the front cameras and ultrasound for close distances, however if one of those rear-facing cameras fails due to a defect or dirt on the lens the vehicle would have to stop because it wouldn't be able to detect oncoming cars. I am also not sure…

The processing power "could" be enough, but lack of redundancy in sensors is a lot more troubling to me.

Then again, if one of the sensors breaks. It's a small chance that the vehicle will crash when trying to find a safe spot to stop.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#144

Post by tajen »

adanto6840 wrote: post #11

This is quite interesting, I hadn't seen or heard about their intention to restrict like this, prior reading it tonight: "Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year."

That means a city is in uncertainty if it tries to buy 3 or 4 Tesla to serve as paid minibuses on local territory – neither can a company for a campus, TV channels for a huge studio range, entertainment park to drive their agents around or a shuttle service to the airport who would like to provide limousine services.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#146

Post by jaimex2 »

Animats wrote: post #64

Watch this at 0.25x speed or slower to see what's going on. This is a carefully chosen environment. Every place it drives has very clear highway centerline markings. It seems to be highly dependent on those for guidance. Sometimes it can't quite identify the road edge, but the centerline provides a position reference. The inputs seem to be road line recognition, optical flow for the road, and solid object recognition…

This video is from 7 months ago and a concept demo. They would be quite a lot further along now. Read further down: "Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed."

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#147

Post by quotemstr »

pxndx wrote: post #139
wilhil wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because when you buy software, you know you are renting it - you technically can reverse engineer/decompile, copy, clone, resell - but you know you shouldn't. If I buy a car and want to take the engine out, or a light and resell it - I would be very stupid, but, it is my property and I should be able to. If Tesla want to lend instead of sell you something - fine, just be honest!

Why is there a difference between sowtware and the car? Didn't you also pay for the software?

A functioning commercial regulatory apparatus would not allow vendors to call the practice of providing encumbered software licenses in exchange for money by the term "selling software". That we put to with this practice, which basically lives on consumer confusion, is a bug.

It's a lot like our allowing people to sell patent medicines as "supplements". In both cases, we let people distort the meaning of regular words for commercial gain.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#148

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

wibr wrote: post #82
billhathaway wrote: post #15

Tesla sent out an email today. Autopilot Updates We just released the latest version of Autopilot. You can now experience Enhanced Autopilot features including Traffic-Aware Cruise Control, Autosteer, Auto Lane Change, Parallel + Perpendicular Autopark, and Summon. Automatic Emergency Braking, Forward + Side Collision Warning, and more advanced safety features are also active and standard. All Tesla vehicles have the…

I don't really believe that the hardware is enough for what they are trying to achieve. There is almost no redundancy e.g. on sensor level except for the front radar supporting the front cameras and ultrasound for close distances, however if one of those rear-facing cameras fails due to a defect or dirt on the lens the vehicle would have to stop because it wouldn't be able to detect oncoming cars. I am also not sure…

I'm interested how they plan to solve the problems that the cameras alone cannot solve (assuming they're just RGB cameras with no special dynamic-range abilities) - like white-out snow conditions or driving directly facing the sun (a contributory cause towards the Tesla+truck fatal crash last year) - I understand that only systems with active projection (e.g. Lidar) and beyond-visual-spectrum cameras can provide reliable data... and yet Tesla claims that their current hardware, without these more exotic sensors, is sufficient.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#149

Post by quotemstr »

elmigranto wrote: post #24
quotemstr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think our legal system should allow car manufacturers to impose these kinds of restrictions on cars fully owned by their operators. If I have the title on my vehicle, I should be able to use it in any legal capacity. This restriction is an attack on the fundamental ideas of ownership and property.

Software-like licenses make their way to hardware world. I wonder how soon we'll start seeing "as is" and "no guarantees of any kind" clauses…

People try these shenanigans every generation or so. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#150

Post by Animats »

jaimex2 wrote: post #141
Animats wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare Chris Urmson's SXSW talk from 2016 about Google's system.[1] Look carefully at the graphics which show what the sensors are detecting, and compare with Tesla's. Watch Urmson discuss hard cases, problems, and failures. Not seeing that with Tesla. Or Uber. Or Cruise. Or Otto. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj-rK8V-rik

Cool, when is it being released?

Waymo's Early Rider Program is now running in Phoenix AZ.[1] They have soccer moms and their families in self-driving minivans.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hbd8N3j7bg

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