Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big? • Hacker News Board

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#141

Post by johnchristopher » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:09 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #104

jondubois wrote: post #14

I agree they should be regulated. The world is a better place with lots of smaller companies. These big companies turn regular people into corporate livestock to serve the wealthy. If you were to analyze Facebook as if it were a country, the wealth gap among employees would be atrocious - The top 1% would own maybe 99% of the wealth of the country and everyone else would earn a minuscule fraction of the total value t…

Disclaimer: I work at Google > The world is a better place with lots of smaller companies. [citation needed] A lot of things Google does -- a lot of the things people actually like about Google -- are possible only because it's a huge monolith. Divorce the ad-making money machine, and say goodbye to all the services consumers like that are nowhere near as profitable: gmail, maps, photos, chrome, android, translate, y…

> Divorce the ad-making money machine, and say goodbye to all the services consumers like that are nowhere near as profitable: gmail, maps, photos, chrome, android, translate, youtube, drive, waze, where do you think the money for this stuff all comes from?

Hey. I'd be happy to pay for a gmail, photos, maps if that removes the creepy ad-business.

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#142

Post by izacus » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:10 PM UTC

yellow_postit wrote: post #100

pikzen wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What is up with all this egalitarian nonsense? Just the wish to have a society that is able to evolve, to have all of us go forward as a species instead of concentrating the power in the hands of few. >There is an obsession with equality that I just don't get. That's called being a bit of a sociopath, but it gets better. >This is an affront on capitalism which has served to lift so many out of poverty. Good! Capital…

What do you recommend to replace capitalism. I've seen a lot of the other attempts and they have not been pretty.

Which version of capitalism and which attempts? The form of capitalism inside USA isn't the same as Scandinavia, China or Africa practice it.

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#143

Post by Navarr » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:11 PM UTC

mothers wrote: post #122

TulliusCicero wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I work at Google > The world is a better place with lots of smaller companies. [citation needed] A lot of things Google does -- a lot of the things people actually like about Google -- are possible only because it's a huge monolith. Divorce the ad-making money machine, and say goodbye to all the services consumers like that are nowhere near as profitable: gmail, maps, photos, chrome, android, translate, y…

Suppose there was an organization, "Creation", that did mass surveillance on everyone on the planet. They don't disclose what they do with this data. Let's say as a result of Creation's sharing of this data with local governments, crime is nonexistent. Based on only what we've said is that a good or bad deal? Also, all of your examples were either purchased or have alternatives, so, yeah.

To be fair that's all based on morality which is subject to vastly differing viewpoints depending on circumstance, time period, etc.

I think most of the people here would say that's a bad deal - but I don't think there's any way to say definitively that such is the case.

It's possible a more open society with less secrets is a better society - but I don't know that, and I don't know that the opposite is true.

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#144

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:12 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #104

jondubois wrote: post #14

I agree they should be regulated. The world is a better place with lots of smaller companies. These big companies turn regular people into corporate livestock to serve the wealthy. If you were to analyze Facebook as if it were a country, the wealth gap among employees would be atrocious - The top 1% would own maybe 99% of the wealth of the country and everyone else would earn a minuscule fraction of the total value t…

Disclaimer: I work at Google > The world is a better place with lots of smaller companies. [citation needed] A lot of things Google does -- a lot of the things people actually like about Google -- are possible only because it's a huge monolith. Divorce the ad-making money machine, and say goodbye to all the services consumers like that are nowhere near as profitable: gmail, maps, photos, chrome, android, translate, y…

[deleted]

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#145

Post by Navarr » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:13 PM UTC

crowbahr wrote: post #139

43224gg252 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>gmail, maps, photos, chrome, android, translate, youtube, drive, waze I think there are alternatives for all of those, many open source.

But none work together so seamlessly. I'm with that guy: the ease of life is amazing with Google. I'll buy movie tickets online then get an alert about driving conditions and when I need to leave to arrive on time. That's something your open source maps program can't do because it doesn't have access to my email. And if it did I wouldn't use it because it'd be sitting there combing my email constantly which isn't eff…

Open source could work together flawlessly like that, but it'd need open, standard protocols to do so - and an adherance to them.

A closed system just makes it easier for someone to do - because they don't have to care about any standard protocols and can hack together whatever they want and everyone will just deal with it.

I'm not really arguing against you - but I think it's important to note that what we have is possible, just not _right now_.

Of course, _right now_ is when we all want it.

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#146

Post by 0x737368 » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:15 PM UTC

friedman23 wrote: post #133

weirdstuff wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Divorce the ad-making money machine, and say goodbye to all the services consumers like that are nowhere near as profitable: gmail, maps, photos, chrome, android, translate, youtube, drive, waze, where do you think the money for this stuff all comes from? This needs a citation, as well. This is assuming Google hasn't starved out potential competitors who would have provided the same service, or better service, had…

Congrats on your degree in econ. You would think that someone with a degree in econ would believe it wise to first establish what the negative externalities are and what externalities regulating away the existence of large business would produce before defending the idea of doing so. We already know that with the existence of Google we get free products like search, mail, video, etc. Do you have evidence that when we…

Even if we assume that allowing Google to exist as a monopoly does bring better services, that's a small price to pay for not having to be subjugated by a conglomerate.

Countries can already barely withstand pressure from big companies, by allowing them grow even further everything would just turn in a way that would allow such companies to make even more money, whilst increasing the gap between the rich and the poor.

And with regards to better services, I think the open source community has shown us that it's possible to make great services without having to work for a company. In many cases even better services because the prime objective is to make a program that would help the user, not make money for the company.

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#147

Post by sr2 » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:16 PM UTC

Things like Mastodon[0] and IPFS[1] are always worth checking out, if you want to get a sense of control over your data. With regards to the argument that these companies are so entrenched in our society that they are very difficult to remove, almost like barnacles, then I agree that something has to be done. The real problem exists when there is no other choice for people. For example, the default search engine on Android phones is most certainly Google and not DuckDuckGo. Another example of terrible monopolistic practice is that Android phones are so fragmented. It seems kind of odd that in order to have the most secure Android installation, that I also have to have the latest hardware. I find it very unfair that legacy devices are locked to a single Android install and can't upgrade properly. These things should be future proof and be able to respond to threat landscapes. I feel very uneasy communicating on legacy devices because there is the uneasy feeling that the device has been infected by either low-level attackers, or nation states.

[0] https://mastodon.social/about

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterPlanetary_File_System

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#148

Post by jimnotgym » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:16 PM UTC

RE Amazon: I think it is problematic that they are now one of the biggest marketplaces, as well as being a trader. Put simply this allows them to watch other peoples sales, and if they look pretty good on a certain product, undercut them. This could be solved by divesting, hiding the transactions nature from Amazon, or more radically, having the data in the open so everyone can use it

Re Apple: Technology comes and goes, but the iphone was a good one. The troubling thing for me is the amount of cash they are hording. If this is intended to underwrite Applepay as a new bank, then firstly they must allow open access to all technology platforms to use Applepay. You can't have a new dollar that works better at Walmart than Tesco.

Re Google and Facebook: These companies are advertisers. I have no problem with their size or structure at present. I do have a problem with using their easy cross border presence to avoid taxation. You cannot have the biggest revenue generators for advertising paying no tax, when everyone else has to. In the UK Google is headquartered in Ireland so the UK receives no tax from the billions of revenue. This is unsustainable for the country.

My real problems with Google and Facebook is they regard everything about us as their to do what they want with.

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#149

Post by tajen » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:17 PM UTC

weirdstuff wrote: post #114

TulliusCicero wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I work at Google > The world is a better place with lots of smaller companies. [citation needed] A lot of things Google does -- a lot of the things people actually like about Google -- are possible only because it's a huge monolith. Divorce the ad-making money machine, and say goodbye to all the services consumers like that are nowhere near as profitable: gmail, maps, photos, chrome, android, translate, y…

> Divorce the ad-making money machine, and say goodbye to all the services consumers like that are nowhere near as profitable: gmail, maps, photos, chrome, android, translate, youtube, drive, waze, where do you think the money for this stuff all comes from? This needs a citation, as well. This is assuming Google hasn't starved out potential competitors who would have provided the same service, or better service, had…

Skyrocketing acquisitions by big companies also justify half VC economy (the other half being AirBnb-style dominance over a sector). It would be interesting to know, if the exit events were smaller, whether the seed/VC capital eould redirect to more conservative positions like old industries or emerging markets.

Re: Are Google, Amazon and others getting too big?

#150

Post by mark_l_watson » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 6:17 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #141

TulliusCicero wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I work at Google > The world is a better place with lots of smaller companies. [citation needed] A lot of things Google does -- a lot of the things people actually like about Google -- are possible only because it's a huge monolith. Divorce the ad-making money machine, and say goodbye to all the services consumers like that are nowhere near as profitable: gmail, maps, photos, chrome, android, translate, y…

> Divorce the ad-making money machine, and say goodbye to all the services consumers like that are nowhere near as profitable: gmail, maps, photos, chrome, android, translate, youtube, drive, waze, where do you think the money for this stuff all comes from? Hey. I'd be happy to pay for a gmail, photos, maps if that removes the creepy ad-business.

+1 I agree!

Usually (when not traveling) I try to avoid Google's free services like search, the excellent Google Assistant, Maps, etc. That said, I use Google constantly for stuff I pay for: Google Cloud Platform, buying movies and TV shows on Google Play, pay for a YouTube Red + Play Music family plan, and use their One a Day charity site.

I would be delighted to pay $10/month for the current 'free' Google services if they strongly protected privacy.