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AlphaGo's next move

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141–150 of 179 posts

Re: AlphaGo's next move

#141
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually at the lowest level there's this whole quantum business that says exactly otherwise.

That is unlikely to affect the microscopic world. The physics of everyday life are deterministic, no need to invoke quantum mechanics.

GGGP didn't do that, they made a link with chaos theory and that's decidedly not deterministic.

And I think you meant to say 'macroscopic'.

Re: AlphaGo's next move

#142

I remember vividly in 1997 when Deep Blue defeated Kasparov, and I was a competitive chess player. The mystique of the game was immediately lost for me, and I never found the passion for the game that I once had. My heart goes out to the sea of Go players now searching for meaning in the game. At the very least we can take this signal as a true indicator that our world is close to being completely upheaved by intelli…

> our world is close to being completely upheaved by intelligent machines, in all areas of intellectual pursuit I could see myself losing the passion for software engineering and design if an AI can do it better. That would have to be a general AI, and hopefully another couple of decades away. I wonder if I could enjoy movies or books written by an AI. Scary to think about the psychological manipulation it would be c…

I read a book "Rise of the Robots" and after some chapters I checked the last page almost expecting to read something like "By the way, this book was writen by a machine...". But no, no such luck :-P

Re: AlphaGo's next move

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several activities right now that people keep doing despite machines being better suited: martial arts (and more in point, HEMA[1]), handicrafts, several Olympic sports. Why would anyone attempt to run a marathon under two hours, when any car can do it in 30 minutes? I think the answer lies less in "I will be the absolute best", and more along the lines of "I will do it better than anyone before me". And so…

At the same time martial arts in the age of firearms has become relegated to the fringe, and running in the age of automobiles (probably even starting with the age of horses) is also kind of silly to take too seriously, and few people care outside of a couple days every four years, if even. It's kind of like what happened to painting when the era of photography began. Machines taking over human disciplines still kill…

> martial arts in the age of firearms has become relegated to the fringe

But also new martial arts appeared such as IPSC or 3Gun.

> running in the age of automobiles

There's Formula 1 and other motor sports that are pretty popular.

> Machines taking over human disciplines still kills the disciplines

It kills some and gives birth to others.

Re: AlphaGo's next move

#144

I remember vividly in 1997 when Deep Blue defeated Kasparov, and I was a competitive chess player. The mystique of the game was immediately lost for me, and I never found the passion for the game that I once had. My heart goes out to the sea of Go players now searching for meaning in the game. At the very least we can take this signal as a true indicator that our world is close to being completely upheaved by intelli…

There are several activities right now that people keep doing despite machines being better suited: martial arts (and more in point, HEMA[1]), handicrafts, several Olympic sports. Why would anyone attempt to run a marathon under two hours, when any car can do it in 30 minutes? I think the answer lies less in "I will be the absolute best", and more along the lines of "I will do it better than anyone before me". And so…

And meditation, that some may put under marital arts, but I would put it alone as a thread that goes through everything. Is it possible that machines will meditate one day? I don't know, but definitely we may need their compassion.

Re: AlphaGo's next move

#145
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time martial arts in the age of firearms has become relegated to the fringe, and running in the age of automobiles (probably even starting with the age of horses) is also kind of silly to take too seriously, and few people care outside of a couple days every four years, if even. It's kind of like what happened to painting when the era of photography began. Machines taking over human disciplines still kill…

> martial arts in the age of firearms has become relegated to the fringe But also new martial arts appeared such as IPSC or 3Gun. > running in the age of automobiles There's Formula 1 and other motor sports that are pretty popular. > Machines taking over human disciplines still kills the disciplines It kills some and gives birth to others.

I understand your point in that there are martial arts that incorporate modern weapons. Probably a nit, though I'd consider 3-gun and IPSC sports or events rather than arts themselves. Similar to how people can practice and train in different martial arts, but when they compete there are specific rules they need to follow depending on the event they're participating in.

Re: AlphaGo's next move

#146
post #123

The problem is an AI that is good at Go is not at all transferable to any other game. However, a human prodigy can apply their genius to many domains.

> However, a human prodigy can apply their genius to many domains

I'm not sure how true this is. It's pretty rare to find someone who is a genius in more than one domain. Einstein was famously offered the presidency of Israel. Sure, he could probably do well in other sciences, but he was smart enough to know he could not apply his genius to unrelated domains.

Re: AlphaGo's next move

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is unlikely to affect the microscopic world. The physics of everyday life are deterministic, no need to invoke quantum mechanics.

GGGP didn't do that, they made a link with chaos theory and that's decidedly not deterministic. And I think you meant to say 'macroscopic'.

GGGP?

And yes, I did mean macroscopic, sorry.

Re: AlphaGo's next move

#148
post #145
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> martial arts in the age of firearms has become relegated to the fringe But also new martial arts appeared such as IPSC or 3Gun. > running in the age of automobiles There's Formula 1 and other motor sports that are pretty popular. > Machines taking over human disciplines still kills the disciplines It kills some and gives birth to others.

I understand your point in that there are martial arts that incorporate modern weapons. Probably a nit, though I'd consider 3-gun and IPSC sports or events rather than arts themselves. Similar to how people can practice and train in different martial arts, but when they compete there are specific rules they need to follow depending on the event they're participating in.

Like other martial arts, shooting sports have to be different from actual combat to avoid actually killing the participants. Some (e.g., paintball or tank biathlon) are more realistic than others (e.g., sumo).

Re: AlphaGo's next move

#149

The 10 AlphaGo vs. AlphaGo games are a nice gift! I have always liked playing through great games, both Chess (using the book The Golden Dozen) and Go (modern games and the ancient Shogun Castle games). I have some history with computer Go. In the late 1970s I wrote a Go playing program in UCSD Pascal that I sold for the Apple II, and also for a lot more money I sold the source code to a few people who wanted to expe…

Do you know if there's video or audio of Peter's talk online? I just did a bit of a search but couldn't find it.

Re: AlphaGo's next move

#150
post #148
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your point in that there are martial arts that incorporate modern weapons. Probably a nit, though I'd consider 3-gun and IPSC sports or events rather than arts themselves. Similar to how people can practice and train in different martial arts, but when they compete there are specific rules they need to follow depending on the event they're participating in.

Like other martial arts, shooting sports have to be different from actual combat to avoid actually killing the participants. Some (e.g., paintball or tank biathlon) are more realistic than others (e.g., sumo).

Right. The distinction I'm making is between the training and what is done in the sporting events. People taking self defense courses which incorporate aspects of martial arts learn and practice some techniques which are not allowed or advantageous in a sporting event.
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