CEOs Want Their Offices Back • Hacker News Board

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#141

Post by r00fus » Mon, May 22, 2017, 3:39 PM UTC

hajile wrote: post #130

varelse wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like the cargo cult Agile pandemic peaked a few years ago, I suspect we're reaching peak open floor plans right now. The overall negative effects of an open floor plan for a significant fraction of engineers (though not all) is self-evident and backed up by reams of data stretching back nearly 40 years: http://iansommerville.com/software-engineering-book/web/work... TLDR: 100 square feet of personal space is opt…

In my experience semi-open layouts are the best. A handful people working in the same room on the same project generally seems to work well at encourage pair programming and exchange of information while having an actual room isolates from other distractions. That said, I think in the programming world, remote work will eventually become the new office because it's the ultimate cost cutter and greatly opens up the po…

I prefer the hybrid approach: common semi-open room, plentiful breakout areas that can double as part-time offices.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#142

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, May 22, 2017, 3:40 PM UTC

ronnier wrote: post #18

coffeeski wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would take a 10% paycut to have a small office that fits 2 monitors, a filing cabinet and some pictures, rather then dealing with constant clattering of the guy behind me that decided converting a type writer into a digital keyboard was a good idea.

The mechanical keyboard people in open offices bother me.

This is why I gave up my old IBM Model M for a quieter DAS Model S. I don't really want to type on cheaper mushy keyboards, so this is a nice compromise.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#143

Post by blhack » Mon, May 22, 2017, 3:41 PM UTC

varelse wrote: post #58

ronnier wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mechanical keyboard people in open offices bother me.

So you would prefer your coworkers develop RSI symptoms from straining to use a laptop keyboard? Not all of us can use laptops for extended periods of time. Now if I could type with my brain (and I don't mean by smashing my head repeatedly on the keyboard), that's Sam Altman status quo shattering next-level stuff, but I don't think we're there yet. As others have replied, the problem isn't my typing, it's <40 square…

The standard keyboard layout, which every mechanical keyboard I've ever seen (including my beloved model M) is terrible for your wrists. The people using mechanical keyboards are not saving themselves anything.

Get a proper ergonomic keyboard like the microsoft sculpt if you actually care about the health of you hands.

Mechanical keyboards are cool, which is why I own one, and when I had an office why I used one every day. But mechanical keyboards are like the loud exhaust that people put on their cars. Yeah, there is a reason that some cars have loud exhausts, but that isn't why you put that on your honda civic.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#144

Post by arkitaip » Mon, May 22, 2017, 3:43 PM UTC

strictnein wrote: post #30

ronnier wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mechanical keyboard people in open offices bother me.

Agreed. I have a mechanical keyboard at home (Corsair Gaming K95 RGB), but at work I use a Mac wired keyboard (on a PC). Super quiet and probably the best performing scissor switch keyboard. edit: proper Mac keyboard type

Hey, I have the same keyboard! Do you actually use all the extra G keys or macros? I thought I would but the cognitive load of memorizing what each G key stands for is too much.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#145

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, May 22, 2017, 3:44 PM UTC

drewolbrich wrote: post #94

maxxxxx wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently got one and I admit it's really loud. But this shouldn't be an issue in a decent workplace. I have several guys near me who have loud voices and talk a lot. That's worse than a loud keyboard. Open office plans are the problem, not keyboards or loud people.

I am distracted by your loud keyboard. Frequently, I find myself wishing that you had a quiet keyboard like everyone else in the office. I am particularly irritated by the noise of your keyboard each morning when you write long emails or posts. When you are coding and there are frequent long breaks when you are thinking, it is not quite as distracting, but I still don't like it. I agree with you that open office plan…

I was using a Model M when working in an open office in China. No one really cared, because the guy in the cubicle next to me had a sunflower/watermelon seed habit. Damn, no one should be de-shelling seeds in an open office! Or in the afternoon we would have fruit, and pear day everyone would be smacking and slurping (Chinese pears are much more watery than western pears, I hate pear day!), or everyone talking/arguing/whatever. Turns out my keyboard wasn't weird in what was already a high noise environment.

I had to invest in a pair of Bose noise cancellation headphone a long time ago.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#146

Post by closeparen » Mon, May 22, 2017, 3:45 PM UTC

coffeeski wrote: post #8

Why do CEO's think they're alone in the need for quiet spaces where they can focus? Sure some people can work in the noisy space where interruptions abound. The only thing in my office that works well with interruptions is my CPU. I'd rather have a Cube farm, but better yet, a small tiny phone booth as an office.

I don't think it's realistic to put the masses in their own offices at any productivity level if it means you need more Silicon Valley or San Francisco square feet.

But an office and the opportunity to live somewhere I can spend less than 50% of my income on a reasonable apartment, I'd take that offer in a heartbeat.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#147

Post by Spooky23 » Mon, May 22, 2017, 3:45 PM UTC

hajile wrote: post #130

varelse wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like the cargo cult Agile pandemic peaked a few years ago, I suspect we're reaching peak open floor plans right now. The overall negative effects of an open floor plan for a significant fraction of engineers (though not all) is self-evident and backed up by reams of data stretching back nearly 40 years: http://iansommerville.com/software-engineering-book/web/work... TLDR: 100 square feet of personal space is opt…

In my experience semi-open layouts are the best. A handful people working in the same room on the same project generally seems to work well at encourage pair programming and exchange of information while having an actual room isolates from other distractions. That said, I think in the programming world, remote work will eventually become the new office because it's the ultimate cost cutter and greatly opens up the po…

I agree. My most productive environment was either 2 or 4 person offices. The weakness was the common space.

IMO a dorm suite like layout would be great... have a pod of offices supporting 20 people with a shared common area.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#148

Post by _jal » Mon, May 22, 2017, 3:46 PM UTC

d883kd8 wrote: post #68

ronnier wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mechanical keyboard people in open offices bother me.

They are like Accelerationists, bringing about the end of an undesirable system by increasing the damage it causes until it cannot be ignored.

Drifting rather off-topic here, but why credit the "heighten the contradictions" strategy to a weird modern academic cult? Rebranding Leninist ideas about sabotage, I guess, makes it seem fresh to the rubes. Never mind that attempting to time social and political systems doesn't work much better than timing the market, and if you get it wrong, you're just being a horrible person. (Assuming your underlying goals are good ones to begin with.)

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#149

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, May 22, 2017, 3:47 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #143

varelse wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you would prefer your coworkers develop RSI symptoms from straining to use a laptop keyboard? Not all of us can use laptops for extended periods of time. Now if I could type with my brain (and I don't mean by smashing my head repeatedly on the keyboard), that's Sam Altman status quo shattering next-level stuff, but I don't think we're there yet. As others have replied, the problem isn't my typing, it's <40 square…

The standard keyboard layout, which every mechanical keyboard I've ever seen (including my beloved model M) is terrible for your wrists. The people using mechanical keyboards are not saving themselves anything. Get a proper ergonomic keyboard like the microsoft sculpt if you actually care about the health of you hands. Mechanical keyboards are cool, which is why I own one, and when I had an office why I used one ever…

> The standard keyboard layout, which every mechanical keyboard I've ever seen (including my beloved model M) is terrible for your wrists.

If you type a lot over a prolonged period of time, yes. If you type in short bursts (like most programmers), no, mechanicals are actually useful.

> Get a proper ergonomic keyboard like the microsoft sculpt if you actually care about the health of you hands.

Again, if you are an old fashioned typist working on memos, this advice holds, otherwise....

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#150

Post by Arizhel » Mon, May 22, 2017, 3:47 PM UTC

NTripleOne wrote: post #117

Arizhel wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mechanical keyboards are better for RSI and general comfort. If you don't like them, complain to your manager that you need walled offices.

Also be careful not to point out that "keyboard noise" is the crux of the issue, since then you'll end up with those employees being told they can't use their nice keyboards that they probably paid a lot for just to use at work, which will result in said employees really, really not liking you if they find out it was you that complained.

Exactly. That's a great way to poison a relationship with a coworker.