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Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

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Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#141

Post by lispm »

mamon wrote: post #124
lispm wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ultimate goal of the EU is to promote peace and collaboration in Europe.

...under wise and benevolent German rule. EDIT: of course a German (lispm) would deny that and downvote me for saying so :) But the fact is that whenever an important decision is made in EU it is first made in Chancellor Merkel's office, and then approved by EU Commision and Parliament, which act as a decoys. The latest example of that informal decision making process is the current refugee crisis.

Fake news.

I haven't downvoted your post above.

If you claim that the EU is ruled by Germany, the refugee crisis has clearly shown the opposite. Most countries did not follow German policies. Actually the press in Germany talked about being isolated in the EU in the refugee crisis. You also seem to be unfamiliar with how decision making works in the EU.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#142

Post by adventured »

mamon wrote: post #131
sgt101 wrote: post #129

I think that at 41k per kilo one tonne of gold is worth $41m. 1300 tonnes of gold is therefore worth a bit more than $51bn, which is a lot, but approximately 1 year of the UK's defence budget, so in the scale of things not really all that much. Now, this would mean that (given that Germany is a big economy) there would be what... 20 times that amount of gold available to back a gold currency - so about $1trn. I think…

Gold is valued at only $41k per kilo because central banks managed to convince us that we don't need it to back up our currency. If China really created gold-backed currency then gold price would skyrocket, increasing at lest 6 times (that's how much inflation we had since 1971, when the gold standard was abandoned)

China is about the last nation that is going to attempt to create a gold-backed currency.

They've accumulated an extraordinary amount of debt in a very short amount of time. Easily the greatest debt boom in world history. $40 to $50 trillion in new debt in about 13 years. Their combined debt to GDP ratio is now among the worst; counting the low estimates on shadow banking, it is the worst.

China needs to be able to abuse its currency going forward, for the exact same reason Japan is down to devaluing the Yen to keep the budget lights on. Low debt nations don't need to debase their currencies for such reasons - China will never be a low debt nation again (at least not this century); high debt nations get strangled to death by affixing their currencies to eg gold.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#143

Post by slv77 »

Theodores wrote: post #105
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reading in between the lines, it seems as if a good chunk of gold has gone missing and there is an attempt by both sides to save face. Or more likely: you do not want to cause any confusion in the markets. Ultimately the state of that gold has very little impact on the world as it moves. However any speculation about it, potentially can have impact (and most likely not positive one). When people in Europe started t…

"The gold in the U.S. was earned by West Germany through trade surpluses in the 1950s and 1960s and was never moved out of the United States due to fear of invasion by the Soviet Union." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_repatriation So for a while the U.S. was saying to Germany 'thanks for those cars, machine tool and other goodies, have some gold, we will keep it in the vault safe until you need it...' and, after…

The US would be more than happy to pay back the Germans through exports of machine tools and cars and other goodies. I believe that German structural trade surpluses are an issue both inside and outside the Eurozone.

Also after WWII the US had accumulated essentially all the worlds gold reserves leaving their currencies without backing. The alternative to the Bretton Woods agreement was the US gifting gold reserves.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#144

Post by saryant »

mamon wrote: post #107

There's no need for Germany to invade other EU members, because the ultimate goal of EU was to give the Germans control over the Europe without using military force, and that's working pretty well for them - they can keep other countries in check just because they provide most of the money to EU budget. But, Switzerland is NOT an EU member, so that's a different story :)

The precursor to the EU was the European Coal and Steel Community, a treaty organization proposed by the French not to give Germany power over Europe but to integrate Germany so that its interests aligned with those of France and the rest of Europe.

The choice was simple: post-war Germany could be subjugated either militarily or economically. France could continue the occupation, leaving Germany without sovereignty and repeating the mistakes of the Treaty of Versailles, or France could try something different this time around.

Millions were dead. The post-war governments of Europe actually did a pretty good job of not repeating their past mistakes.

The idea that Germany kicked off European integration to dominate the continent is factually wrong (the French started it) and even if it was true, it's clear they failed given how Germany has effectively become the lender-of-last-resort, bailing out the rest of the continent. The EU isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than the pre-war status quo.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#146

Post by erikb »

eveningcoffee wrote: post #47
erikb wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You read the news "Robberies in have increased by 30%". Would that make you more willing to redirect half your savings to my account? If so, I'm happy to discuss further via email.

In principle if you are know to be a honest person and there is big enough stick (contract plus state justice system) to threaten you then it could make sense.

I hate to admit but that's true. As long as you both are under the same government and put the contracts in a form that is can be proven to a judge you probably don't have to worry as much.

Sadly that's hardly the case for the most powerful countries.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#147

Post by erikb »

brianwawok wrote: post #111
ciroduran wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the TV show there is Xaro Xhoan Daxos http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Xaro_Xhoan_Daxos

Xaro was in the books, but his plot was totally different. At no point did he open a giant empty vault.

I seem to have forgotten that. Thanks for clearing it up!

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#148

Post by erikb »

21 wrote: post #44
erikb wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Russia-Ukraine has shown you can take stuff by force without creating big scale war. And remember how Hitler just went state shopping before there was a war? The thing about war is that most party's don't really want it. So sometimes it's possible to grab some advantage that theoretically should result in war.

So you are saying that Germany would begin military action against Switzerland for $50 billion worth of gold (rough value of 1000 tons of gold). How much damage to the Euro and to the European stock markets would such action cause? Not to mention other costs

Not 100% what I'm saying. I'm saying that if Switzerland holds a lot of Germanys gold and has promised to give access whenever and don't hold up to that promise, Germany just moving some tanks over, then taking the gold, then moving the tanks back, is quite a possible scenario.

Yes that would harm the EU in short term (1-5 years). But so would it get hurt if a powerful member of that alliance is not able to enforce rightful demands. Anyways if we include the EU into the discussion, it's very likely that a lot of other steps would convince Switzerland before the first tank needs to get manned.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#149

Post by erikb »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #138
erikb wrote: post #36

> Gold is money, which is based on physical ownership, not on trust in the willingness and ability of another party to honor their promises. If you have gold, but you do not have it under your control, it is almost pointless to have gold. Really digging this one. That's why I proactively not listen to investors/consultants who suggest to buy some gold derivates for savety purposes. In other regards: What's the point…

Gold sort of works for sovereigns. It's crap for individuals. Any situation where you need to rely on physical gold is a situation where someone else will take it from you by force.

Yes, the value is much smaller since your power to keep it is smaller. But the amount will also be smaller. And I would say there are still quite a few situations where having something of trade value is better than having nothing.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#150

Post by erikb »

dualogy wrote: post #89
erikb wrote: post #36

> Gold is money, which is based on physical ownership, not on trust in the willingness and ability of another party to honor their promises. If you have gold, but you do not have it under your control, it is almost pointless to have gold. Really digging this one. That's why I proactively not listen to investors/consultants who suggest to buy some gold derivates for savety purposes. In other regards: What's the point…

Well, for one he has some books to sell ;)

Yeah after reading more from his side, that's also what I'm guessing.
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