Should be noted that the article is from 2013 in the title
This same article was actually posted here a few years ago, and commented on extensively:
Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)
141–150 of 177 posts
Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)
#142I learned about this from the Learning how to learn class on Coursera. Can't recommend it enough. https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learn
I went through the course on your recommendation. Thanks, it was great!
Apparently much of it based on Oakley's book A Mind For Numbers, which I'll try to read soon. Much of the content also reminded me of Josh Waitzkin's The Art of Learning. A related thread elsewhere on HN [1] also suggests Make It Stick by Peter Brown.
Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
This strikes me as the type of comment that sounds artificially 'deep' but has no constructive or logical basis. What does 'default state' even mean in this context? The fact is we naturally sleep sometimes and we're awake at other times. If you're suggesting there's no reason for sleep other than conserving energy, that's patently false. The (assumed) primary motive here is to find a way to sleep less. We already ha…
> This strikes me as the type of comment that sounds artificially 'deep' but has no constructive or logical basis A bizarro thing to say, given that the parent gave several arguments that make sense from an evolutionary/physical viewpoint, like "sleeping requires much less energy" and "the only reason to be awake is to eat and reproduce". > What does 'default state' even mean in this context? The state that requires…
> The state that requires the less energy expenditure? Similar to a rest/equilibrium state in physics?
That's a very reasonable definition. Taking that into account, let's revisit the context of the parent comment: "What if being asleep is the default state for any organism?" What do you mean "what if"? "What if " is not a constructive or insightful question.
> A bizarro thing to say, given that the parent gave several arguments that make sense from an evolutionary/physical viewpoint, like "sleeping requires much less energy" and "the only reason to be awake is to eat and reproduce".
Repeating myself: If you're suggesting there's no reason for sleep other than conserving energy, that's patently false.
Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)
#144Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is entirely possible that it would evolve differently, perhaps given that not everyone would be available during the 'dark' hours you might see a society evolve into dual function, where 8 hours were for 'working' and 8 hours were for 'community/family' with 8 hours split into two 4 hour segments as 'transition times'.
I was thinking this as well. I suspect that it's impossible to predict, but I wouldn't think it unfathomable to imagine a world in which, with all the additional free time, society might evolve towards a more Italian ethos, in which we take longer lunches, and don't mind spending as much overall time 'at the office', though not necessarily working any more while there.
As an American, living in late capitalism, I do not see this as anything but extremely wishful thinking for 99% of the working population here.
But if this sort of thing ever does happen, then I absolutely hope that it goes down as you've described.
Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was thinking this as well. I suspect that it's impossible to predict, but I wouldn't think it unfathomable to imagine a world in which, with all the additional free time, society might evolve towards a more Italian ethos, in which we take longer lunches, and don't mind spending as much overall time 'at the office', though not necessarily working any more while there.
As an American, living in late capitalism, I do not see this as anything but extremely wishful thinking for 99% of the working population here. But if this sort of thing ever does happen, then I absolutely hope that it goes down as you've described.
Yes, your anti-capitalist intentions were pretty clear from your earlier post. Put simply, I do not share your views on the subject.
Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why force things? I don't want 50% more waking hours. I enjoy my sleep tremendously.
I suspect (but do not know) that you enjoy your sleep because of its restorative effect. If you could obviate the need for the restorative effect, and instead just always feel newly restored, would you still enjoy going to sleep for no reason? Personally, I dislike the need for sleep. I put it off for as long as I can manage, and try to get as little of it as I can get away with. For me, I have a hard time functionin…
"Either way, I assume that nobody would force you to take a drug that you didn't want to take."
Like hell they won't. It will become a social and economic imperative before you know it.
Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)
#148Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)
#149> The process is important because what's getting washed away during sleep are waste proteins that are toxic to brain cells, Nedergaard says. Evolution found a nice little optimum in sleep that works pretty well- use less energy during a time of the day that isn't a very efficient time to be awake while also cleaning out the brain. This could be interesting for future research. Could we find chemical means to remove…
Or maybe some sort of mechanical pumping system? If it takes too much energy away from the brain to both remain awake and clear those proteins, a mechanical pump that is powered externally could solve that energy problem. (I'm only half joking--we already have mechanical means of replacing other biological functions such as a dialysis machine).
The brain has a mechanical pumping system, check it out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebrospinal_fluid#Clinical_s...
Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or maybe some sort of mechanical pumping system? If it takes too much energy away from the brain to both remain awake and clear those proteins, a mechanical pump that is powered externally could solve that energy problem. (I'm only half joking--we already have mechanical means of replacing other biological functions such as a dialysis machine).
The brain has a mechanical pumping system, check it out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebrospinal_fluid#Clinical_s...
Wow, didn't know that--pretty amazing!