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As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

nytimes.com

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Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#141

Post by mavdi »

cylinder wrote: post #94

I love how these comments always boil down to salary and cost of living arguments. People, (mostly Americans), you're doing it wrong. What kind of fool moves to a remote island in the middle of nowhere and then expects to somehow still earn as much as in the United States? This is not the right reason to expatriate. Go because you love NZ (or X country) not because you want to leave America. Go because you like the l…

I did that and pretty much earn what I used to earn in London. Perhaps a little more. There are excellent options for talented techies, need a little bit of trust in yourself and you're all set.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#142

Post by hueving »

throwaway729 wrote: post #98

> For the most part, this is all true in, say, Tulsa. Especially if you stay off Facebook. Really only the cost of living. > Commuting is less wearying Not really. There's a near zero percent chance your commute involves anything other than driving. The walkable areas of midwestern cities are certainly cheaper than SF, but they're also not exactly cheap. You're still looking at half a million for a decent house, 200k…

>which is decidedly Trump's America

Look at the results for something like Kansas City, MO.[1] It's about 50/50 between the two candidates. If you look at the Bay Area counties[2], it's 1/6th to 1/5th of the voters supporting Trump.

So in a room filled with a random ~10 people will have 2 Trump supporters in the Bay and 5 in Kansas City.

>they were just the people I was obligated to spend time with.

I suspect this is the only actual difference between the two. On your visit to the Midwest you were forced to hang out with people discussing politics. This is no less unpleasant if you are living in the Bay and aren't a rabid Democrat.

1. http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/missouri

2. http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/california

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#143

Post by ravenstine »

Rapzid wrote: post #110
ravenstine wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sums up my experience pretty accurately. Granted, I lived there almost 10 years ago, so I don't have an accurate picture of what it's like now. I also find it interesting that you say that obesity is a problem there, because I never got that sense during my time in Wellington. The quality of food is incredible, like you say, but people take in a lot of sugar and alcohol. I could see diabetes being a problem, but…

I found a really good dentist in the Auckland area. Not the cheapest, but he has some awesome credentials and I believe at least partly specializes in cosmetic dental work. Fixed a bad fill job my wife got in Indonesia, gave me advice on a crack forming in a tooth, and steered me away from whitening(which I'd say turned out to be the right choice for me). A true craftsman. Was bummed about having to find a new dentis…

Is his name Simon?

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#144

Post by throwaway729 »

cookiecaper wrote: post #137
throwaway729 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This assumes that one's politics align with the politics and hostile culture in California. I intentionally avoid living in CA due to its culture/politics and have turned down multiple bona fide relocation offers to CA. This is certainly true! To each his own. My point was that the midwest probably isn't a great place to be if you're looking for "cheaper California". Sounds like we agree on that. > When I lived in…

>"Not being fired for being gay" is literally the lowest bar I can think of other that "not being imprisoned for being gay". The point is that the community at large was willing to accept these people as role models for their children and did so with minimal hostility or interference (visible anyway, since I can't see what happens behind closed doors). Entrusting a teaching position is a little different than any oth…

> The myth that Republican areas are hostile wastelands with poor quality of life for minorities has much more to do with confirmation bias and a desire to justify high cost of living than anything else, IMO.

If only that were true, I'd move back to the midwest in a heart beat.

> This is not to discount any personal experience you may have had, just my opinion on the sentiment in general.

Name a "that doesn't happen here" scenario -- from blatant racial discrimination/brutality in policing to "bobby's parents sent him to pray-the-gay-away camp" -- and I experienced or directly witnessed a friend experience it before coming of age.

Whenever people shame me for being overly harsh on midwestern culture, I stop and feel guilty for a split second. Then I think back to these victims of its excesses and the guilt quickly subsides.

I firmly believe there are decent communities in the midwest. Especially in its cities. I don't doubt your or anyone else when you say you've had good experiences.

Unfortunately, that doesn't change anything about the fundamental cultural trade-winds of the aggregate region. Or the effect they have on people caught in the zip code one over.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#145

Post by hueving »

throwaway729 wrote: post #128
tomdell wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop with the generalizations. They're inaccurate and insulting. You don't know what you're talking about at all.

I'm not saying "all midwesterners are racist and believe in crazy shit". I'm saying it's more common and harder to avoid in the midwest. I think that claim is both true and demonstrable. I even suggested one empirical test. At the very least, it's not a generalization. Saying "box a has more red gumballs than box b, so if you don't like red, choose box b" isn't the same as saying "all the gumballs in that box are red…

>With all due respect, I lived in the midwest long enough to have an informed opinion. Maybe our experiences differ, but mine are PERFECTLY well-informed.

It sounds like you lived in one location in the mid west and have taken it upon yourself to assume that's how it must be everywhere. That's not well-informed, it's just an anecdote about a crappy time spent somewhere in the country.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#146

Post by throwaway729 »

hueving wrote: post #142
throwaway729 wrote: post #98

> For the most part, this is all true in, say, Tulsa. Especially if you stay off Facebook. Really only the cost of living. > Commuting is less wearying Not really. There's a near zero percent chance your commute involves anything other than driving. The walkable areas of midwestern cities are certainly cheaper than SF, but they're also not exactly cheap. You're still looking at half a million for a decent house, 200k…

>which is decidedly Trump's America Look at the results for something like Kansas City, MO.[1] It's about 50/50 between the two candidates. If you look at the Bay Area counties[2], it's 1/6th to 1/5th of the voters supporting Trump. So in a room filled with a random ~10 people will have 2 Trump supporters in the Bay and 5 in Kansas City. >they were just the people I was obligated to spend time with. I suspect this is…

> Kansas City, MO...Bay Area counties

This isn't even close to an Apples-to-Apples comparison. You should at least include Clay, Lafayette, Johnson if you're going to look at the entire Bay area.

And then looks at who's Actually In Charge of the state! The people with the power are the ones who make an actual difference, on a political level. Greitens is downright liberal compared to a lot of the general assembly.

> So in a room filled with a random ~10 people will have 2 Trump supporters in the Bay and 5 in Kansas City.

But you and I both know that's not how it actually works basically anywhere. Except maybe the DMV.

> On your visit to the Midwest

I spent decades there, in cities, burbs, and rural areas.

My experiences are representative. Perhaps, I venture to guess, much more representative than someone who never leaves Jackson County.

Spend some time in the bootheel. Or even the comparatively flaming liberal city of Springfield.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#147

Post by vkat »

hueving wrote: post #142
throwaway729 wrote: post #98

> For the most part, this is all true in, say, Tulsa. Especially if you stay off Facebook. Really only the cost of living. > Commuting is less wearying Not really. There's a near zero percent chance your commute involves anything other than driving. The walkable areas of midwestern cities are certainly cheaper than SF, but they're also not exactly cheap. You're still looking at half a million for a decent house, 200k…

>which is decidedly Trump's America Look at the results for something like Kansas City, MO.[1] It's about 50/50 between the two candidates. If you look at the Bay Area counties[2], it's 1/6th to 1/5th of the voters supporting Trump. So in a room filled with a random ~10 people will have 2 Trump supporters in the Bay and 5 in Kansas City. >they were just the people I was obligated to spend time with. I suspect this is…

I lived in Kansas City metro for 6 years and politics is rarely discussed at work. The people I hang out with are very welcoming and don't treat immigrants any differently. When there was racial induced killing in one of the suburbs(Olathe) there was an outpouring of grief and support. Basic human premise.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#148

Post by hueving »

throwaway729 wrote: post #144
cookiecaper wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Not being fired for being gay" is literally the lowest bar I can think of other that "not being imprisoned for being gay". The point is that the community at large was willing to accept these people as role models for their children and did so with minimal hostility or interference (visible anyway, since I can't see what happens behind closed doors). Entrusting a teaching position is a little different than any oth…

> The myth that Republican areas are hostile wastelands with poor quality of life for minorities has much more to do with confirmation bias and a desire to justify high cost of living than anything else, IMO. If only that were true, I'd move back to the midwest in a heart beat. > This is not to discount any personal experience you may have had, just my opinion on the sentiment in general. Name a "that doesn't happen…

>Name a "that doesn't happen here" scenario -- from blatant racial discrimination/brutality in policing to "bobby's parents sent him to pray-the-gay-away camp" -- and I experienced or directly witnessed a friend experience it before coming of age.

So you were born 20+ years ago? It sounds like your notion of the Midwest is about as stuck in the past as the notion that San Francisco is a hippie mecca.

>Whenever people shame me for being overly harsh on midwestern culture, I stop and feel guilty for a split second. Then I think back to these victims of its excesses and the guilt quickly subsides.

And you should feel guilty for continually shitting on a place you have no association with anymore.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#149

Post by ivm »

jankotek wrote: post #16

Ireland is similar, minus the isolation. In Shannon you can leave a car 100 meters from terminal, and board direct US flight in 30 minutes.

Ireland is under the radar. One more hidden gem is Chile, especially considering land/property prices and freelance-friendly visas.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#150

Post by throwaway729 »

hueving wrote: post #145
throwaway729 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying "all midwesterners are racist and believe in crazy shit". I'm saying it's more common and harder to avoid in the midwest. I think that claim is both true and demonstrable. I even suggested one empirical test. At the very least, it's not a generalization. Saying "box a has more red gumballs than box b, so if you don't like red, choose box b" isn't the same as saying "all the gumballs in that box are red…

>With all due respect, I lived in the midwest long enough to have an informed opinion. Maybe our experiences differ, but mine are PERFECTLY well-informed. It sounds like you lived in one location in the mid west and have taken it upon yourself to assume that's how it must be everywhere. That's not well-informed, it's just an anecdote about a crappy time spent somewhere in the country.

> It sounds like you lived in one location

Also not true. Try again.

> That's not well-informed, it's just an anecdote about a crappy time spent somewhere in the country.

Multiple decades across several states. Both in cities and in non-city areas.

The argument here basically amounts to: "But hey, the densest 20% County-Containing-Major-City, ST isn't so bad, and my college educated software engineering co-workers are all pretty decent..."

And I'M the one making inaccurate generalizations about the region?!

Come off it. Take a week off work on go two counties in any direction. Or hell, to that other suburb where 30% of the metro population but none of the folks you hang out with live. Come back and tell me you still think I'm wildly out of touch.

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