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Programmers are most likely to work from home

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Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#141

Post by aidenn0 »

skizm wrote: post #124
eddieh wrote: post #12

I like working from my office. I don't understand people that like working from home. Possible confounding variable: I live exactly two blocks from my office and don't have to commute. Perhaps, in actuality, people don't like to commute?

I will name some the reasons I like to work from home and none involve a commute: - I'm in an open office situation. - Standing desk is awkward when everyone else is sitting. - If I make a loud noise eating or sneezing or something like 5 people stare at me trying to figure out what is going on. - I can't have twitch or a baseball game on in the background because nosey co-workers will walk by, see my screen, and com…

Yeah, all but one of your complaints would be solved by a door[1]. Are there actually programmers who prefer the open-office setting? It's not like I magically stop socializing if you put me in an office.

The only thing worse than open-office for me is a setting where my back is to a space that people are walking through. I can't even have my back to an open doorway in an office (assuming the hallway outside is somewhat busy), or I spend much of my time in a low-grade fight-or-flight situation.

If you put me in an open office where people are regularly walking by behind me, you are probably getting (at best) 60% of my productivity in an office with a door. Actually, in this job market, you are getting 0% of my productivity because I will work elsewhere.

1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#142

Post by [deleted] »

humbleMouse wrote: post #34
School-Cotton wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really are a top performer, a big part of the justification for your high pay is because you multiply your impact by mentoring more junior employees.

I respectfully disagree. The justification for my high pay is because I integrate complex systems with shitty vendor web service api's and automate the transmission of sensitive data. The work I am doing has a huge impact on profitability of my company - much more than the joke of a 6 figure rate they are paying to keep me around. I avoid being a fulltime employee because I don't want to have some unwritten commitmen…

[deleted]

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#143

Post by nsxwolf »

I've been working remote almost exclusively for 13 years now. It has its own benefits and problems but I really, really hate hearing it described as a "perk". We've had the technology for many jobs to be 100% remote for a very long time now, and I still see it treated by companies as a benefit like "summer hours" or casual Fridays or whatever.

It's pretty insulting, actually, to frame people like me as entitled slackers.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#144

Post by grardb »

jt2190 wrote: post #98
grardb wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment doesn't read like it was written by a "humbleMouse" :) I don't think this is a healthy attitude to have towards less experienced developers. Literally every experienced developer was once inexperienced, and I think for the vast majority of people, it's hard to become a senior or even intermediate developer without some mentorship along the way. I believe this is especially true for aspects outside of wri…

> I think for the vast majority of people, it's hard to become a senior or even intermediate developer without some [on the job] mentorship along the way. Doesn't this assume that the only mentorship (edit: We're really talking about "job training") is peer mentorship? What about classes, self-training, etc? Why should the onus be placed 100% on the senior employee? Why no onus on the junior employee?

As I wrote in my comment:

>I believe this is especially true for aspects outside of writing code. This probably isn't true at every company, but from where I've worked, a big part of being a senior engineer is understanding how to tie in business goals to development. That's not really easy to learn in a tutorial online or by contributing to open source.

I went through four years of computer science education, had multiple jobs/internships in college, and even took over 10 MOOCs across Udacity, edX, and Coursera. None of those things prepared me to be the developer I am today (I won't deny that they helped, though). They certainly put me in a great position upon graduating college and got me a great job, but nothing increased my skills more than simply working with more experienced developers in a full-time role.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#145

Post by aidenn0 »

eddieh wrote: post #74
reverend_gonzo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too prefer working from the office, for the most part. My commute is easy. My setup at work is far better than at home. However, if I could not be in the office, that means I could find a mountain cabin in the winter, and go ski after work, or a beach cabin in the summer, or just go travel the world, while still working during the day. These are the kinds of benefits that are extremely desirable.

I think I could get behind a nice remote mountain cabin for working. Or a sail boat.

IIRC much of tech.coop was developed from a sailboat.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#146

Post by ebola1717 »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #119
School-Cotton wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really are a top performer, a big part of the justification for your high pay is because you multiply your impact by mentoring more junior employees.

If thats true, it should be an explicit part of a job description. Not an implicit expectation.

At most big companies with a formal title ladder, this is an explicit criteria for being a "senior" engineer.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#147

Post by pavel_lishin »

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #106
finder83 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe still not a secret, but the dirty part in some companies is that if there are layoffs, they'll lay off the people who are paid the highest and keep the people that they trained.

When companies are laying off their top performers to save money either (a) they are falling apart, likely near death, and you should leave anyway or (b) they are just a stupid shitty company that doesn't understand the value of top developers so you should leave anyway. So if you get laid off, it is probably a favor.

Not much of a favor if you don't see it coming and still have bills to pay.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#148

Post by sigi45 »

skizm wrote: post #124
eddieh wrote: post #12

I like working from my office. I don't understand people that like working from home. Possible confounding variable: I live exactly two blocks from my office and don't have to commute. Perhaps, in actuality, people don't like to commute?

I will name some the reasons I like to work from home and none involve a commute: - I'm in an open office situation. - Standing desk is awkward when everyone else is sitting. - If I make a loud noise eating or sneezing or something like 5 people stare at me trying to figure out what is going on. - I can't have twitch or a baseball game on in the background because nosey co-workers will walk by, see my screen, and com…

What can you really concentrate on when there is commentary somewhere oO?!

There is a fucking difference between commentary and music and radio btw.

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#149

Post by pc86 »

qandb wrote: post #77
pc86 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a horrible attitude. I hope you're just having a bad day and this isn't how you typically act around other because I wouldn't even want to work in the same building as you when as a supposed "top performer" you don't feel the slightest obligation to share your knowledge, your skills, your experience, etc with "shitty college grads." I'm sure you were born knowing how to code so you can't relate, but for everyone…

> you don't feel the slightest obligation ... No morality whatsoever emanates from a company's bottom line. It can certainly not compete with my own bottom line. How can you expect people to agree to train their own competition? Publishing general open-source code is ok, but telling other people how the code works that you write and maintain for a living ... why would anybody do that?

> telling other people how the code works that you write and maintain for a living ... why would anybody do that?

Just so I know I'm understanding you correctly, are you saying that you refuse to tell your coworkers how code you write works?

Re: Programmers are most likely to work from home

#150

Post by TeMPOraL »

mantas wrote: post #138
droopyEyelids wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthy for who? The way you're using it, healthy is a weasel word. If someone is paid to literally write code, it's perfectly healthy for them to want to only write code and not provide free labor in a different domain. I'd go so far as to say we currently have an unhealthy culture if we're expected to provide free training to everyone. Job training used to be, and still should, be an explicit responsibility of the…

Isn't it expected that mentoring is fundamental part of being a senior worker? Usually "employer" don't know nowhere nearly as much about code as senior devs. If somebody was hired purely to do onboarding, they wouldn't have good grasp on the code either. Seniors who have up-to-date knowledge of the is best bet, no?

Sure, but this needs to be accounted for and the regular workload for such seniors needs to be appropriately reduced.
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