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Tim Berners-Lee wins Turing Award

news.mit.edu

141–150 of 305 posts

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wins Turing Award

#141
TBL is a great role model. He saw an important opportunity to make the world better and he executed on it selflessly.

I do think he probably should have started a browser company or something though. The nice thing is that his beautiful dream for the web is (slowly) coming true.

I love looking at that NeXT box he used as the first web server: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN_httpd

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wins Turing Award

#142

When I was an MIT student I worked one summer at CSAIL. The office I was in had only a single occupancy bathroom. One afternoon I went to use it and just as I got there I saw that TBL was exiting. Once I went in and sat down, I noticed that the seat was warm ! Highlight of my life right there, having my butt warmed by the residual heat of the inventor of the www's butt. Ahem, in any case, congrats to him! Definitely…

Hmmm... so you have a TBL number of 1, for some definition of TBL number.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wins Turing Award

#143

This goes to show how hard winning Turing award is. One would have expected someone who invented the most useful invention of the 20th century to have won this award long time ago. Maybe I am just overvaluing www because of the impact it had on people's lives. EDITED: 20th century, not 19th.

It's hard to top antibiotics in terms of useful inventions.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wins Turing Award

#144
post #54
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least it's still mainly interoperable with 3rd party solutions through open standards. I host my own email and as long as you adhere to the guidelines (use DKIM, make sure your IP range isn't part of some blacklist, triple check your postfix config etc...) you don't feel like a 2nd class netitizen.

Not quite. You still (in my experience) need to go through obscure web-forms to avoid having gmail/hotmail black list your domain. And even then gmail is way too aggressive with its spam labeling. I've seen replies to an email thread be marked as spam by gmail when the sender is in the recipient's address book. Gmail considers anything beyond big corporate email providers as second class participants - and so does th…

Sorry, but no. That is entirely false. I run a mail provider for companies, and as long as you adhere to standards and do not emit spam, you don't have to do anything like filling out obscure web forms. You may, on occasion, hit a spam trap due to a compromised account or similar, but de-listing on good RBLs is time-based and automatic. Be vigilant, take care of security faults in your network and, when solved, take the affected IPs out of service for a while.

This may not apply if you are a low volume sender.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wins Turing Award

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a matter of fact, this is what Sir Berners Lee is working on right now at MIT. https://solid.mit.edu/ The issue is not storing the data, just like "email" doesn't store data. It's just a protocol and a data format. This makes it interoperable across whichever industry player wants to spring up and compete for your service. Ex: Don't like gmail? Go to ProtonMail. And you don't lose the ability to interact with peop…

But half the point of a social network isn't the ability to communicate, but rather the history you've built there. Likewise, half the value of email isn't the ability to send a message to anyone, but the history of emails you have. Sure email isn't a data storage method, but in reality? Yeah, email is a data storage method. That's why Gmail gives me 25GB for free. Not because that's the size of my inbox, but because…

> History creates lock-in, and history is really hard to move around.

It doesn't need to be. For example, I moved my email between IMAP servers multiple times simply by dragging & dropping a swath of messages in Outlook. That Outlook (of all programs!) is the only tool that I know of that makes this easy is not a problem with the decentralized nature of email but simply with mediocre client implementations.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wins Turing Award

#146
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I wish we had something more decentralised, like e-mail, but for social networks. Like, a standardized social network protocol that most people use (popularity is important here). There is nothing special about what social networks like Facebook do, the biggest challenge is probably serving so many requests and storing lots of data with high availability.

As a matter of fact, this is what Sir Berners Lee is working on right now at MIT. https://solid.mit.edu/ The issue is not storing the data, just like "email" doesn't store data. It's just a protocol and a data format. This makes it interoperable across whichever industry player wants to spring up and compete for your service. Ex: Don't like gmail? Go to ProtonMail. And you don't lose the ability to interact with peop…

The goal is solid, but I wonder how it might prevail. The flexibility to change at any time doesn't seem a priority for most people. Most people search for a satisfactory solution and stay with it until it's no longer bearable, or a competitor many times better appears. The same for most things in one's lifestyle.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wins Turing Award

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This goes to show how hard winning Turing award is. One would have expected someone who invented the most useful invention of the 20th century to have won this award long time ago. Claude Shannon never won it.

That's an interesting point. I interpret the prize's criteria "for contributions of a technical nature made to the computing community" to be less in Claude's space and more in the applied space. Scrolling down through the list of past winners, I've implemented several of the work of winners and am using the WWW right now to communicate this. On the other hand, I think I use Claude's work in the same sense that I use…

I see a number of theory guys on the list. That's the thing that's interesting about Shannon's exclusion: for any given explanation, there's a counterexample on the list. I've never really known anyone involved very seriously in the ACM, those guys probably know why he was excluded.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wins Turing Award

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia and himself, he wrote up a proposal and was encouraged by his boss to implement it as an "unofficial" project: https://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/FAQ.html#Influences

You can read the original proposal here: https://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html

That's a great read. I didn't realize Bill Atkinson's HyperCard preceded Tim Berners-Lee's proposal by a few years, or that Berners-Lee had referenced HyperCard directly in it.

The applications of hypermedia were clearly in the ether in thay era, but that document certainly pulls a lot of the threads together.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wins Turing Award

#149
post #137

For anyone who doesn't know, the www is a a "hypertext" project where documents can contain links to each other. By clicking these links, a wide variety of content is exposed. For example, consider how much easier it is to use Wikipedia than to have to look up references in the index (page numbers by word occurrence) of a printed book. You can just click on a link and follow it. In all, most people spend most of thei…

TBL created the web, certainly - but hypertext prior to the web goes far back as an idea (at least as far back as Alan Kay - also an ACM Turing Award winner, IIRC)...

The word, at least, was coined [1] by Ted Nelson, published 1965. The idea goes back at least to Vennevar Bush's Memex proposal [2] in 1945.

I haven't heard Kay mentioned as an early proponent of hypertext, I'd be interested to hear more if you can find it.

[1] https://elmcip.net/node/7367

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memex

Re: Tim Berners-Lee wins Turing Award

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a matter of fact, this is what Sir Berners Lee is working on right now at MIT. https://solid.mit.edu/ The issue is not storing the data, just like "email" doesn't store data. It's just a protocol and a data format. This makes it interoperable across whichever industry player wants to spring up and compete for your service. Ex: Don't like gmail? Go to ProtonMail. And you don't lose the ability to interact with peop…

But half the point of a social network isn't the ability to communicate, but rather the history you've built there. Likewise, half the value of email isn't the ability to send a message to anyone, but the history of emails you have. Sure email isn't a data storage method, but in reality? Yeah, email is a data storage method. That's why Gmail gives me 25GB for free. Not because that's the size of my inbox, but because…

History is crazy easy to move; any difficulty we have moving history is intentionally caused by the companies with a vested interest in keeping you from moving that history.
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