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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#141

Post by no_wizard »

toast0 wrote: post #73
mikeash wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a manufacturer is confident that their product will last, they can convey this to the buyer by providing a really good warranty.

A really long warranty only helps if the company remains solvent. I would be happier with something the manufacturer was confident was serviceable. Control boards that approach the cost of a high end smartphone are unreasonable, but also common.

I always had this dream of starting a company where my disruption to whatever industry, say home appliances, or cars, isn't that I'm doing something new, per say, its that I'm engineering everything the company would sell with DIY easy access fixes in mind, and actually publish (and ship with the product) the repair manual so people can just order the parts (with some margin, nothing crazy i'd think) and be on their way. Sell it to the self reliant, tinkers, and generally just people who hate to pay the high cost of repairs on things.

I wonder, truly, if this would be successful. I have no way of even wrapping my head around how to get something like that off the ground.

I think if someone designed and shipped a car, for instance, that was completely serviceable by the owner and designed with that in mind first and for most, you could easily disrupt the car market for a very broad amount of people today.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#142

Post by Nition »

emodendroket wrote: post #3

While planned obsolescence is probably a factor I'd also consider the desire for more complicated features, efficiency requirements, and high (upfront) price sensitivity on the part of consumers. To the last point in particular I think you will find that a refrigerator was way more expensive in real dollars in 1950.

Do many people actually have a "desire for more features" or are most features just being crammed in in a bid to differentiate refrigerator A from refrigerator B?

Personally I usually perfer the least features possible mainly because more features = more stuff to break.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#143

Post by setpatchaddress »

bambax wrote: post #34

The only brands I ever buy are Miele and Siemens; they're both German; Miele has always been family owned; not sure about Siemens (huge conglomerate). Miele machines are expensive but indestructible. Siemens ones are very strong and not much dearer than other brands. Are those not available in the US?

Miele is here, but they're known for vacuums and dishwashers, mainly. The Miele laundry appliances have tiny capacities compared to everything else sold in the US. My assumption is that Europeans wash clothes more frequently, in smaller batches.

Years ago, I bought a Miele dishwasher with cutlery rack; it was incredibly good. Other people have had mixed experiences. Service is difficult to find for Miele.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#144

Post by Nition »

pcurve wrote: post #132
SeanDav wrote: post #124

On a related note, I accidentally cracked the touch screen of my 8 year old Ford Radio/AC control unit. Cost to replace 4,500 GBP, which is more than the entire value of the car currently. Insane, because it basically means if you crack the touch screen, you have to scrap the car, if you want to claim via insurance. Managed to get it replaced with a second hand one for £300, including labour.

can you imagine cracking LCDs in this car? (not a concept btw) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvZpBy_5xAA Skip to 0:30

Looks like a nightmare for trying to adjust anything while driving as well. At least it's got a couple of real control knobs I guess.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#145

Post by no_wizard »

snotrockets wrote: post #72
orless wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many people won't mind paying a higher price for a longer-lasting product. But there's just no way to know it will really be longer-lasting.

I'm willing to bet manufacturers actually went and did market research, and found out the opposite. As if there was a market demand, they would have build and market such products.

Thats always the assumption isn't it? That they already did the research and found no demand for x.

I think if I have learned anything from Silicon Valley though its this: Never assume that these assumptions are categorically true, or that they were undertaken with due diligence.

Perhaps it is true, and there is not enough interest in this to justify it happening. What if, though, they didn't do the market research properly? Or steadfastly, it actually didn't happen at all?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#146

Post by ianbicking »

bambax wrote: post #34

The only brands I ever buy are Miele and Siemens; they're both German; Miele has always been family owned; not sure about Siemens (huge conglomerate). Miele machines are expensive but indestructible. Siemens ones are very strong and not much dearer than other brands. Are those not available in the US?

Miele is available, though not at more commodity stores like Best Buy. We replaced our awful 3-year-old waste of a dishwasher for a Miele and have been happy. In terms of cost, the original (Electrolux?) was like $800 and the Miele was maybe $1100. But the Miele has less capacity and is louder. Which I'm OK with in exchange for reliability and sound construction, but if we hadn't gotten such a lemon before I might have had a harder time justifying it to myself. When my fridge finally dies, I'm sure before its 10th birthday, I'll probably replace it with a Miele.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#147

Post by cardamomo »

Nition wrote: post #139
lordnacho wrote: post #45

He mentions it in the article: It's a failure of feedback that makes this happen. If people can't get reliable information about quality, quality will not determine what they buy. Price will, and price is readily available. To get price down, you need costs down. To do that, you replace the parts with crappy parts. If feedback worked, people would know they were paying less for a less good appliance that will have mo…

I'd love to see a store that sells buy-it-for-life style products that are probably more expensive up front but also built to last, all with robust warranties so you know the claims are backed up. A place you could go into and know everything in there was good. If you wanted the cheapest you'd go somewhere else but man, I'd shop there. They could do appliances (stuff like SpeedQueen washers), hand and garden tools, k…

Yes! I absolutely agree. The store could also offer repair services. (Gasp!) I wonder where a market for such a store would exist, though.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#148

Post by upofadown »

I tend to see this sort of thing as not a failure of competitive markets but an consequence of them working too well. With perfect competition everyone ends up with close to zero margins. One way to avoid this problem is to make a high end product for a while, gain a good reputation and then cost reduce the heck out of the product. Then you can charge for the high end product while only paying to make the absolute cheapest thing that sort of looks like the original product. You get to actually make some money for a while.

Professional marketers apparently refer to this sort of manoeuvre as "harvesting the brand".

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#149

Post by mrfusion »

On the other hand cars have gotten way better. I wonder why?

I remember in 1990s it would be somewhat remarkable to see a car from the 70s. But in the 2010s it's pretty common to see cars from the 90s.

And the paint in my nine year old car basically looks brand new.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#150

Post by wolfgke »

The German appliance manufacturer Miele has been making quality long-lasting products for decades. They are rather in the upper price segment, but not without reason in Germany they say, if some appliance breaks down: "Next time you better buy it from Miele.".
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