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The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

economist.com

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Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#141

Post by nonglobal »

harigov wrote: post #6

What is going on in this world? I was reading news today that the parties on the right side of political spectrum are gaining ground all over Europe. US already has Republicans in power. Every country is becoming more nationalistic. What is driving this change? AFAICT there are no major issues that should have caused this.

Look at this very news article. Tourism from the US is an important industry for many EU member states, particularly the less wealthy. Visa requirements are going to have a horrible impact on the weaker member states. Brussels is more interested in playing political games with the US, increasing their own power, and stomping out nationalist seperatist movements (like trying to imprison Le Pen for posting ISIS videos) than it is with the well being of its member states.

Do not be surprised if desire to negotiate visa waivers bilaterally with the US to restore the tourism industry becomes another common refrain for populist, anti-EU candidates in a few years, albeit one a bit lower on the totem pole than other, more pressing dangers.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#142

Post by lend000 »

darkhorn wrote: post #107
lend000 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is composed of seven major institutions, only one of which has direct representation by voters (the EU parliament), and the number of representatives of each country is (roughly) proportional to their size, so any given voter of a small EU country has effectively zero representation. The EU is very far from a democratic, representative system, and yet it hold tremendous power over its 'constituents.' Not to me…

So that is why everybody wants to move to Europe and feel safe there? It is like a magnet. Not only for economy but for safety too. The EU is established to prevent wars and to keep peace. What heaven is there out of EU? The USA where they shoot you during a police raid or Russia where they shoot you for being an opposition leader or Russia and Turkey where they put your buisness in jail for not supporting the leader…

> The EU is established to prevent wars and to keep peace.

I think there are a lot of people in the Middle East and Africa who would take issue with that statement.

Nowhere is perfect, but that doesn't mean we should strive to improve. Not a single country in the EU is anything like the socialist paradise many white, liberal, American millennials envision.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#143

Post by WildUtah »

Exofunctor wrote: post #58

> What is driving this change? AFAICT there are no major issues that should have caused this. I honestly can't imagine how you could avoid exposure to any of the incredible amount of discontent in Europe right now. European leaders have been importing millions(!) of people from incredibly violent, theocratic, illiterate, and regressive regions, to the detriment of peaceful, secular, educated, and liberal Europeans wh…

"For me, the new Germany exists only in order to ensure the existence of the State of Israel and the Jewish people."

Funny then how Angela Merkel has chosen to ethnically cleanse the German people and replace them with a population whose top geopolitical priority is and has always been the destruction of Israel and the extermination of the Jews.

The new 'refugee' dominated Germany is going to be an interesting place.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#144

Post by FabHK »

maho wrote: post #84
metachris wrote: post #4

The reason being that the US still requires visas from 5 EU countries: Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania. And "The EU says it notified the United States in April 2014 that it was not meeting EU visa rules, and had given the country two years to comply."

You are forgetting the "Visa Waiver Program". Essentially, the rest of us Europeans are required to fill out detailed forms, pay a fee for filling out those forms, and then get a government-issued authorization for "visa free" travel. Right.

As I've said below, if you have to get a visa, you have to fill out a much more detailed form [1], pay a fee that's 10 times higher (USD 160), and actually visit a US consulate for an interview with an official.

So, the visa waiver alleviates the process significantly.

[1] as the law presupposes that you want to immigrate, you have to prove non-immigration, by showing your plan to stay for a specific purpose and specific time, and show binding ties to another country to which you will return.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#145

Post by cplanas »

WildUtah wrote: post #136
cplanas wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or people for who English is not their first language. In Spanish at least, an "americano" is anyone from the Americas. People from the US are "estadounidenses".

Nobody says estadounidenses . The standard, common word in western hemisphere Spanish for people from the United States is an ethnic slur against us. Which should help indicate how good an idea it is to invite more people from that region to our country.

In Spain at least, "estadounidense" is the standard for "American".

Which is the ethnic slur?

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#146

Post by nonglobal »

rbanffy wrote: post #91
robert_foss wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such FUD. How would preventing US citizens from coming to the EU prevent African and Middle Eastern refugees to come to Europe?

I prefer a Middle Eastern or African to a Trump supporter. It's just too dangerous to let them in to spread their ideology. ;-)

Your governments aren't funding TV ads telling you that the future of your countries are American Trump supporters, and that you have to roll over and accept it. Or telling you that unemployed violent rednecks sipping Bud Light and waving the Confederate flag are quintessentially European, and that you are a racist to not want them in your neighborhood beating up your son and making increasingly inappropriate advances on your wife and daughter. And should these rednecks rape your young child, the courts don't them off with a slap on the wrist, because that's how they did it in rural America, and we need to be more accepting of other cultures. And your government certainly wouldn't fine you and send you to jail for hate speech if you complained about these rednecks and Trump supporters online.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#147

Post by [deleted] »

cplanas wrote: post #116
muninn_ wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US Americans are just Americans. Only people who are incredibly pedantic think otherwise.

Or people for who English is not their first language. In Spanish at least, an "americano" is anyone from the Americas. People from the US are "estadounidenses".

[deleted]

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#148

Post by gydfi »

techsupporter wrote: post #13
harigov wrote: post #6

What is going on in this world? I was reading news today that the parties on the right side of political spectrum are gaining ground all over Europe. US already has Republicans in power. Every country is becoming more nationalistic. What is driving this change? AFAICT there are no major issues that should have caused this.

> AFAICT there are no major issues that should have caused this. Populism and a perception that a more globally-connected world is concentrating the benefits of growth into the assets and control of a handful of individuals instead of "a rising tide lifting all boats." Also, the message that some politicians have been using ("trade agreements are evil!" "immigration is bad!" "the EU is making us abuse you!") has take…

That's partially true but I think it's partially a recasting of right-wing thought into a left-wing mould.

The main driving factor is third-world immigration, and in particular the perception that mass immigration from the third world has had deleterious effects on the West, both economically and culturally.

What we're seeing right now is, I think, a preference cascade. For years people have been told that opposition to mass immigration is "racist" and have kept quiet about it, but now it's become more socially acceptable to talk about it.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#149

Post by vacri »

Exofunctor wrote: post #58

> What is driving this change? AFAICT there are no major issues that should have caused this. I honestly can't imagine how you could avoid exposure to any of the incredible amount of discontent in Europe right now. European leaders have been importing millions(!) of people from incredibly violent, theocratic, illiterate, and regressive regions, to the detriment of peaceful, secular, educated, and liberal Europeans wh…

One significant thing that you are missing is a sense of making good on past misdeeds. Europe owes it's economic power to centuries of fucking over Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. And when they de-colonised those places, they set up systems to keep them fucked up. So when you see refugees trying to escape those places, there is a sense of duty to them.

A clear case of this is Syria, which is in the shitter because of the Western destruction of Iraq fifteen years ago. Before the US went in, a number of critics were saying that the US had no exit plan and that removing Hussein would massively destabilise the region - both turned out to be true. So when millions of refugees stream out of there, "our side did that to them".

Another thing you're missing is that Europe still has in living memory the scars of what happens when you're divided rather than unified. We don't have the pain of nazi occupation and collaboration here in Anglotown. WWII had not only country against country, but neighbour against neighbour, and we Anglos have absolutely no idea of what that was like. The same thing happened more recently in '90s former Yugoslavia. European unity is about more than free trade.

Re: The European Parliament votes non-bindingly to reintroduce visas for Americans

#150

Post by Exofunctor »

lispm wrote: post #138
Exofunctor wrote: post #58

> What is driving this change? AFAICT there are no major issues that should have caused this. I honestly can't imagine how you could avoid exposure to any of the incredible amount of discontent in Europe right now. European leaders have been importing millions(!) of people from incredibly violent, theocratic, illiterate, and regressive regions, to the detriment of peaceful, secular, educated, and liberal Europeans wh…

I object to this. > European leaders have been importing millions They have not imported millions. > incredibly violent, theocratic, illiterate, and regressive regions This is aggressive against millions of people. > European politicians don't seem to give much of a shit about Europeans This is hate speech.

IOM and UNHCR estimated 1 million refugees back in December 2015. More since then.

> This is aggressive against millions of people.

Not sure how. You can describe it however you like, but that won't change the fact that it's true.

> This is hate speech.

Criticizing European politicians is hate speech? Interesting.

(Side note: this is why people don't like "hate speech" laws. A surprising number of people think "hate speech" means essentially anything they disagree with.)

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