Japan's Universities Are Failing • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#141

Post by ue_ » Sat, Mar 04, 2017, 1:29 AM UTC

nihonde wrote: post #122

jessaustin wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're really underplaying how much extant "Japanese culture" sucks for young people, and women, and everyone who isn't a wealthy old man. There's so much pressure to get a particular type of job (or marry a dude who has that type of job) and jobs of that type are quite unpleasant. Mis-investment on an immense scale (roads to nowhere, tearing down 20-story office buildings to build slightly fancier 22-story office bu…

There is such a huge gap between your incredibly bleak image of Japan and the lively, optimistic and impressive Japan that I live in. I've lost count of the number of gaijin experts on Japan who want to tell me about how wrecked Japan is, and how Japanese people are in denial, and all the ways they need to emulate the West to get with the program. I've also lost count of the things that Japan does measurably better t…

>unrivaled in terms of intelligence, thoughtfulness, convenience, social justice, curiosity, work ethic, respect for tradition, ambitions for the future, and the ability to live your life in peace.

What about wealth and income inequality? And what is there to show in terms of social justice? And why is respect for tradition something to be valued? And the lack of laws that prevent discrimaniton (except for the constitution, which I've read only applies to the citizens)? I'm curious, not trying to come accross as attackative.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#142

Post by ue_ » Sat, Mar 04, 2017, 1:30 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #140

ng12 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is ultimately the decision of the Japanese citizens I mean, that's exactly it. Why is it so shocking an idea that the Japanese apparently prefer to retain their homogeneity even if it weakens their economy?

countries In europe with massive immigration levels are not doIng extremely well. Lets not pretend immigration solves everything please.

I assume you are referring to the refugee crisis. Nobody claims that refugees help with the economy. Nobody is saying immigration solves everything.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#143

Post by ue_ » Sat, Mar 04, 2017, 1:36 AM UTC

Nadya wrote: post #87

flamedoge wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accepting more immigrants doesn't have to mean destroying own culture. I don't see why Japan can't promote and preserve its own culture while accepting immigrants. Is coexisting that hard?

>Is coexisting that hard? Yes. Because of culture clashes. New Culture B doesn't like how existing Culture A "does things" and demands a change. While they are some small minority, they often get ignored by the majority (Culture A). Over time, as more and more of Culture B immigrates into Culture A, they become large enough of a group that they can no longer be ignored . If Culture B was totally fine with adopting Cu…

>If Culture B was totally fine with adopting Culture A and adding to the culture rather than demanding things be done their way "culture killing" wouldn't be as large of an issue.

What if those in Culture B face problems? Should they not ask for change? What if those in the culture are citizens? The idea that people can't ask or demand for things just because they are of a different culture is ridiculous.

>and there are often calls to censor things that are seen as being totally innocent in Japan.

What are you referring to? At a guess, I'd say lolicon/shotacon pornography (which often faces calls to be censored and has been censored in many countries), which is hardly seen as innocent anywhere. That said, I very strongly disagree with the idea of censoring it.

I find the idea of 'culture clash' to be ridiculous, and the reason is that even within cultures there is a huge aemount of variation as to how things should be done. So why are those people legitimate (such as the Japanese Marxists) but those of a different culture are not legitimate? How is 'culture' even defined, and what elements must one have of it?

It's a very nebulous concept so I do not think that drawing the lines you are drawing makes much sense with regard to actual human interactions. Or I could be misinterpreting you, in which case please correct me. I'd say that ignoring people who are complaining is a very dangerous thing to do, in terms of the happiness and benefit for all in society, not just those of your tribe/race/hair colour/football team/culture.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#144

Post by mikekchar » Sat, Mar 04, 2017, 1:37 AM UTC

csa wrote: post #72

pizzetta wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone told me that the hard part about universities in Japan is getting in. Once you're in, you have to try to fail. Conversely, High School, while rote, is hard. In that sense, it's a bit opposite of other places like the Us where High School is not hard but typically University is hard.

This is largely a misconception about Japanese high schools. Most Japanese high schools are ridiculously easy to graduate from. That said, most of the _competitive_ Japanese high schools -- that is, the ones who send their students to the best schools -- require quite a bit of work to graduate from. There is a reason for this. High schools are divided into tracks in Japan via entrance exams, so the competitive high s…

Yeah, I worked in a low level high school in Japan. People don't realise that for every high level school (where students are virtually all prepping for university entrance exams), there or 4 or 5 high schools that are prepping students for trade schools and/or jobs.

Having said that, high level high schools in Japan have a bigger curriculum than what I was familiar with (in Canada). They will cover quite a lot of the stuff that you'd cover in first year university. However, I'll agree that it probably isn't that much different than what students voluntarily cover if they are trying to get into competitive universities in the US, for instance.

Finally, I'd like to echo that students in low level high schools in Japan generally have a lot of fun. It was probably the best atmosphere of any place I've ever worked. Obviously there are some students that are having problems, but the vast majority really enjoy this time. You can see it on their faces -- smiling all day long.

I'm not planning on having kids, but if I were, I wouldn't hesitate to put them into the Japanese school system. Personally, I love it. There are advantages and disadvantages, but as long as the parents aren't pushing their kids into places they don't want to go it offers a lot more opportunity, IMHO.

Just one last point, since it was raised above: employers do spend a lot of time training. I had a friend who graduated from a prestigious university as an engineer. She went to work at a fibre optics company. She spent the first 2 years there building cables and studying. The company wanted to make sure that she understood everything about the business from top to bottom. Now nearly 10 years later, she's managing an engineering group. Very different environment.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#145

Post by chillwaves » Sat, Mar 04, 2017, 1:37 AM UTC

fiblye wrote: post #134

ng12 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm mostly judging by the fact that Japan is a democratic country in which immigration is incredibly restricted. The country is over 98% ethnically Japanese.

Immigration here is incredibly relaxed. If you have a college degree, you can find someone willing to offer you a job, and you haven't committed a felony, you're welcome. People just choose not to come to Japan because they endlessly hear how supposedly racist it is here and how difficult it is to get over the language barrier. And it may be a surprise to many westerners who find a need to push their cultural and pol…

> "This is what I don't want to become."

Very much doubt this is due to our history of immigration.

Is this the same kind of logic that says gay people shouldn't have kids people the bigots will bully them?

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#146

Post by themaninthedark » Sat, Mar 04, 2017, 1:43 AM UTC

flamedoge wrote: post #76

grillvogel wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so all japan needs to do is completely destroy their own culture, its so simple now

Accepting more immigrants doesn't have to mean destroying own culture. I don't see why Japan can't promote and preserve its own culture while accepting immigrants. Is coexisting that hard?

Hmm, so if Japan was to accept a bunch of Muslim refugees from Syria but ban the women from wearing hijabs would you call that racist?

Japan wants people living in Japan over the long term to adopt Japanese value and mannerisms.

They value this because they want a harmonious society.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#147

Post by rangibaby » Sat, Mar 04, 2017, 1:44 AM UTC

csa wrote: post #128

gydfi wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is going pretty well last I checked. It's one of the few places that is successfully transitioning to a lower birth rate via population shrinkage rather than mass immigration, enabling them to maintain their own culture and people.

Serious question... do you or have you recently lived in Japan? Japanese people don't think things are going so well. Many knowledgeable non-Japanese don't think that things are going so well. My personal take is that Japan is taking a huge gamble by taking on a massive amount of debt relative to their GDP. The piper will need to be paid at some point. John Mauldin had described the Japanese economy as a bug in searc…

I have lived in Japan since I was a teenager and people have been predicting an economic collapse leading to the end of Japan since before then.

Not saying that you're wrong but it's not the first time I have read that comment.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#148

Post by flor1s » Sat, Mar 04, 2017, 2:07 AM UTC

Being a PhD student in Japan (and a non-native English speaker) I agree with many points in the article. Some frustrating things about my own experience:

- In my lab, all of the papers written by Japanese students have to be checked by foreign students (which are mostly non-native speakers). The quality of the writing is typically less than mediocre, with a few exceptions.

- We have a seminar every week in which the Japanese students talk in Japanese and will get questions only by the Japanese, while the foreign students present in English and will only get questions from the other foreign students. The environment is a bit toxic.

- I have a monthly meeting of 30 minutes with my supervisor (should be bi-weekly but he almost never has time for it). Those meetings are usually about which journal or conference we should submit an article to, seldom and barely scratching the surface of what my research is about.

- Teachers who give their classes in English will get many complaints from Japanese students. In the end most of them switch (back) to teaching in Japanese again.

- This year I will probably have to go to some sort of job hunting myself, but I'm mostly considering jobs in academia because of the job hunting process for companies seems inhumane. I have heard of cases where students join a company and end up working on projects not remotely related to their research interests.

I often blame myself for not speaking enough Japanese and because of that missing opportunities, but at the same time I am of the opinion that education on the masters and PhD level should be given in English because that seems to be the de facto language of international academia.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#149

Post by teee » Sat, Mar 04, 2017, 2:17 AM UTC

As an Asian and knowing many Japanese friends, I just said this report is true. However not only universities in Japan, all the universities in asian countries are facing structural problems in college education.

People treat college degrees like their passports/certificates to get higher positions in society and better works. They are willing to study harder to enter colleges, and then play for 4 years in university.

It's about cultural problems, especially bureaucracy. It exists in asian blood. People would not like to face the truth, but obey the order. Maybe it's originated from Prussian education system and chinese bureaucratic system(former Roman Empire in Asian), and finally cause the failures of education and creativity.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#150

Post by flamedoge » Sat, Mar 04, 2017, 2:19 AM UTC

themaninthedark wrote: post #146

flamedoge wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accepting more immigrants doesn't have to mean destroying own culture. I don't see why Japan can't promote and preserve its own culture while accepting immigrants. Is coexisting that hard?

Hmm, so if Japan was to accept a bunch of Muslim refugees from Syria but ban the women from wearing hijabs would you call that racist? Japan wants people living in Japan over the long term to adopt Japanese value and mannerisms. They value this because they want a harmonious society.

Is it not at all conceivable that "people living in Japan over the long term to adopt Japanese value and mannerisms." might actually exist? We're picking extremes here, I am sure real data will reveal better picture.