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A profound apology

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Re: A profound apology

#141

Post by simplehuman »

piyush_soni wrote: post #133
codr4life wrote: post #94

Sorry Travis; once an asshole, always an asshole; all the leadership training in the world isn't going to change that. You're 40 years old, how long would you have us waiting? Even brother J. was on your tail in noting that bad trees don't give good fruit. Claiming 'profound' for PR-bullshit like this when you're in that kind of mess is just another nail in the coffin.

But we have made assholes extremely successful in the past (e.g. Steve Jobs). May be they all just want to follow the trend.

Travis is already successful. He is worth billions.

Re: A profound apology

#142

Post by brian_cunnie »

flippe wrote: post #132
ktRolster wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry Travis; once an asshole, always an asshole; No, people actually do change, you know.

I'm guessing (matter-of-factly) that you don't have a degree in psychology.

IIRC, there were two traits that don't seem to change over the course of one's life: gregariousness, and level of anxiety.

Traits other than those two can change. Classic example: an alcoholic who becomes sober.

Re: A profound apology

#143

Post by noobermin »

humanrebar wrote: post #123
codr4life wrote: post #94

Sorry Travis; once an asshole, always an asshole; all the leadership training in the world isn't going to change that. You're 40 years old, how long would you have us waiting? Even brother J. was on your tail in noting that bad trees don't give good fruit. Claiming 'profound' for PR-bullshit like this when you're in that kind of mess is just another nail in the coffin.

Brother J?

Jesus Christ[0]?

I hate to digress from this topic, so I won't in depth, but this whole "good tree, bad tree" philosophy is central to protestant theology and has had an impact on Western culture, while it is often not true, in my opinion.

Another variant is the "bitter water, sweet water" parable from Jude.

[0] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A15-...

Re: A profound apology

#144

Post by codr4life »

simplehuman wrote: post #141
piyush_soni wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we have made assholes extremely successful in the past (e.g. Steve Jobs). May be they all just want to follow the trend.

Travis is already successful. He is worth billions.

That's a very depraved measure of success, like piling up money is something to be admired; even seeing clearly what kind of behavior is driving this apparently isn't enough for the penny to drop.

Re: A profound apology

#145

Post by flippe »

noobermin wrote: post #135
flippe wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing (matter-of-factly) that you don't have a degree in psychology.

I'm a different person than I was ten years ago. Some things remained the same, a few things changed.

It's hard to quantify how "different of a person" you are. But if there's one thing reading psych literature taught me it's that traits like aggression and compassion (or lack thereof) are measurable and shockingly persistent in people over decades.

Circumstances, triggers, and incentives change wildly. The world is in flux. But people's attitudes generally are not.

Re: A profound apology

#146

Post by NegativeK »

conradev wrote: post #82
dokein wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly do not intend to take Travis' side on anything, but sometimes genuine internal realizations are set off by external events (e.g. Spiderman and his Uncle getting shot, or in more seriousness, any number of reformed ex-cons). The problem is that it is largely impossible for an external observer to differentiate genuine internal realization and competency at public relations.

Unfortunately, I don't think any sort of epiphany will undo the damage that has been done. Looking beyond the employees at Uber who have had to suffer through a toxic culture, I am troubled by the fact that the largest private company in the world has done some shady shit[1], and has largely been allowed to get away with it. I shudder to think of the founders out there who are thinking "Maybe it isn't so bad to be a…

"They make people miserable, but look at what they've done!" is by no means unique to Uber or even companies in the past 100 years.

Please don't take that as a defeatist statement, though. Present day asshole leaders shouldn't get away with it.

Re: A profound apology

#147

Post by simplehuman »

codr4life wrote: post #144
simplehuman wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Travis is already successful. He is worth billions.

That's a very depraved measure of success, like piling up money is something to be admired; even seeing clearly what kind of behavior is driving this apparently isn't enough for the penny to drop.

Years from now, he will donate to charity and do philanthropic things and all will be forgotten. Just like another billionaire we know.

Re: A profound apology

#148

Post by bogomipz »

simplehuman wrote: post #141
piyush_soni wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we have made assholes extremely successful in the past (e.g. Steve Jobs). May be they all just want to follow the trend.

Travis is already successful. He is worth billions.

So being a successful human being is gauged solely on the size of one's bank account?

Re: A profound apology

#149

Post by unityByFreedom »

linuxkerneldev wrote: post #104
unityByFreedom wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If social media wants his head, I'm sure they can get it. I think it's bad for tech and the country when we don't support people who say they made a mistake and are seeking help. If you do that, you only end up with really good liars in charge. Allow someone, somewhere, to admit a mistake and correct it in a leadership position.

> we don't support people who say they made a mistake and are seeking help. > you only end up with really good liars in charge. There's a difference between someone realizing they've made a mistake and openly admitting it without needing external pressure / evidence versus someone just "handling" more evidence of wrong-doing coming up. In this case, at a cursory glance, it looks more like someone was accused of a neg…

> There's a difference between someone realizing they've made a mistake and openly admitting it without needing external pressure / evidence versus someone just "handling" more evidence of wrong-doing coming up.

I agree there's a difference, I just don't see the value in calling for his head. There's nothing else to expect of him. He clearly wants to stay and keep trying. It's the board's job to decide if he's fit to remain as CEO.

> it looks more like someone was accused of a negative type of behavior, the person never acknowledged it or resolved it for a long period, then suddenly a series of events followed by video evidence came-up, only then the person acknowledges it and issues an apology and demands/expects to be forgiven

I don't see him expecting anything more from anyone but himself. You may infer that, but it's not written there.

I think his message is simple. He wants to remain as CEO and is willing to take steps to improve his leadership style to do so. You may feel those are empty words. To me, they're meaningful because I've read stories of companies that have been transformed by CEOs who become aware how their faults effect the company. It's possible he is not being sincere, but, I don't see much value in wishing for his demise. An in-company replacement would likely keep the same culture going, and an outside replacement isn't reliable in the tech world. As John Sculley showed, that's risky.

> If on the other hand, the perpetrator acknowledged not just this specific issue that had video evidence, but also acknowledged other issues/faults and gave a plan of action for how they were changing their behavior (more than I'm getting help now), then it would be something positive.

Given the shortness of this apology, I'd guess he isn't quite sure what his other faults are, and is seeking help to identify them.

Re: A profound apology

#150

Post by simplydt »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #131
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name some.

You. 10 years from now. Mark my words, remember this comment, come back here and tell me if you've changed.

Poster probably won't change even in ten years, see research by Dweck. Fixed mindsets are a powerful negative thing. I salute you for believing in the right thing, a growth, malleable mindset supported by modern neuroscience and neuroplasticity!
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