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Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#141
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> has better addons The add-ons might be better, but XUL-based Firefox add-ons are not better. They essentially give full control of your computer to the developer of the add-on. There's no permission model. The "APIs" are mostly the internals of Firefox itself, and when Firefox updates, lots of add-ons break. Most add-ons can be ported to webextensions. The ones that can't probably shouldn't have ever been add-ons t…

>XUL-based Firefox add-ons are not better. They essentially give full control of your computer to the developer of the add-on XUL does open up more attack surface than a web extension. However, web extensions open up enough that you're already in the business of trusting the creator of the extension. A web extension is fully capable of stealing my online banking credentials, for example.

> you're already in the business of trusting the creator of the extension

Those were my thoughts exactly.

And tangentially related to your point, I am wondering why the addon developer, who I have explicitly trusted by intentionally installing their software, is not at least on the same or even higher level of trust as an unknown 3rd party web developer whose arbitrary Javascript application the browser automatically installs and runs when I visit a desired 1st party website?

There are no built-in protections that Firefox (or any browser) provides for running arbitrary 3rd party code that happened to be included by an unsuspected website that features 3rd party fingerprinting, tracking user actions, access to DOM, whether for "benign" or malicious purposes. In my mind that is just as, if not more, important for both security and privacy.

It looks like it is yet to be seen whether Mozilla's extended WebExtensions API will provide enough for existing add-ons that use current low-level access that to some level restrict 3rd party web applications.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#142
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, why is Chromium the better browser? Firefox 57 will have sandboxing and per-tab processes (most likely) plus a better extension system than Chrome's. Firefox 57 should be at least equivalent to Chromium.

Why is it better? just the two links I'm going to give should be enough to give you pause : http://www.cvedetails.com/product/3264/Mozilla-Firefox.html?... http://www.cvedetails.com/product/15031/Google-Chrome.html?v... During 2016, Firefox had 53 code execution CVE reports. Chrome had 2 . Firefox only has around 8% of the browser marketshare. Chrome sits between 44% and 60% depending on the source. So it's not a cas…

And Firefox is less secure and slower because (drumroll, please...) the major architectural changes required to improve on those fronts is completely stymied by the desire to maintain backwards compatibility for addons. Firefox is at last forced to decide between being a bad but very extensible browser or a (hopefully) good but less extensible browser. IMO, the choice is pretty obvious.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#143

IMO Firefox has just 2 things to beat Chrome: better add-ons (like treestyle tabs) and politics (made by Mozilla instead of an ads company). They are burning the first one.

If Firefox 56 is the last release to support Tree Style Tabs, it will be the last release of Firefox before I begrudgingly switch to Chromium.

I switched to Pale Moon and I've been happy with it.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#144
I get that there are a lot of people here who are really concerned that, without XUL and XPCOM, there will no longer be a reason to choose Firefox over Chrome.

What I think they overlook is that, right now, it is impossible to recommend Firefox in any case, because it performs so poorly compared to Chrome that no one will take such a recommendation seriously.

I've been using Firefox since back when it was still called Phoenix. I intend to go on using Firefox for as long as it still exists. But it's been a struggle, these last few years. Having to kick over a primary application platform, losing effectively all state save what programs are running, and reboot it every day or two, because otherwise it gets so slow that it's entirely unusable, gets real old real fast. People like to make jokes about Emacs, but even it doesn't do this! My Emacs sessions last months, and die only when the machine loses power or I hose up the environment so badly while experimenting that it becomes unrecoverable without a reboot. And Emacs is thirty years old.

I don't want to switch to Chrome. Its UI sucks and I'm no fan of Google. But if Firefox keeps getting worse, I'll have to. So I am absolutely delighted to see Mozilla making real and tangible progress toward solving that problem. If doing so means deprecating an ancient plugin API that's in any case dangerous and hard to use, I'm fine with that, especially since there is no reason in the world to believe that its replacement will not eventually gain back most of the relatively few capabilities we're losing in the deprecation. Maybe I won't be able to customize context menus for a while. That's fine, if the browser regains the usability it's lost over the last ten or so years.

I understand not everyone agrees with this point of view. That's not a problem. But I should not like this point of view entirely overlooked by those currently proclaiming the imminent death of Firefox.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#145
They should conduct a survey how many add-ons will stop working, won't be ported to web extensions, and thus how many users they'll lose -- probably not that many because the majority most likely doesn't use add-ons but those people will most likely use anything other people recommend to them. I personally don't know if I'll continue recommending FF.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#146
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't really be to make a statement. Chromium is a better browser but because of the powerful add-ons Firefox's overall experience is better. Take that away and there's no real reason to stay with Firefox unless you like their license and Mozilla as a company.

There is still one major reason to stay with Firefox - it is not Chrome.

Chromium isn't, either.

But the extension flexibility was one of the major points for me.

I'll have to pin Firefox to 56.x in my package manager.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#147

I get that there are a lot of people here who are really concerned that, without XUL and XPCOM, there will no longer be a reason to choose Firefox over Chrome. What I think they overlook is that, right now, it is impossible to recommend Firefox in any case, because it performs so poorly compared to Chrome that no one will take such a recommendation seriously. I've been using Firefox since back when it was still calle…

> it is impossible to recommend Firefox in any case, because it performs so poorly compared to Chrome ...

I understand that this is your experience, but what is the basis for saying this is generally true? It's not my experience; theoretically, can't I also say my experience is generally true?

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#148

I get that there are a lot of people here who are really concerned that, without XUL and XPCOM, there will no longer be a reason to choose Firefox over Chrome. What I think they overlook is that, right now, it is impossible to recommend Firefox in any case, because it performs so poorly compared to Chrome that no one will take such a recommendation seriously. I've been using Firefox since back when it was still calle…

I am wondering if I'm lucky but my foxes are always fast, even with 100 tabs. Both on Linux and Windows boxes. You are not the first one who complained about the speed here, so I am wondering whether our difference is due to bad luck or good luck.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#149

IMO Firefox has just 2 things to beat Chrome: better add-ons (like treestyle tabs) and politics (made by Mozilla instead of an ads company). They are burning the first one.

If Firefox 56 is the last release to support Tree Style Tabs, it will be the last release of Firefox before I begrudgingly switch to Chromium.

I switched to Chrome a year ago and while it was a little rough at the start I am very happy overall now. Shame but Firefox was just so much slower that it was annoying me. Plus Chrome syncs everything much better than Firefox ever did.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#150

IMO Firefox has just 2 things to beat Chrome: better add-ons (like treestyle tabs) and politics (made by Mozilla instead of an ads company). They are burning the first one.

I'm extremely worried about Rikai-chan/sama.

Rikaichan allows translation of Japanese words simply by hovering your mouse over. It works much better than entering words into an online dictionary, since nearly every free JE-EJ dictionary uses the same source, and if a conjugation isn't translatable it will cut the word off giving the meaning and then letting you easily highlight the conjugation to figure out the meaning of the two together. Its just much faster than using something like jisho.org if theres a lot of words in a text you don't know. Rikaisama makes Rikaichan even more powerful with a lot of extra features

Everytime I've ever tried the similar plug-ins on Chrome they've all been terrible, missing words, missing conjugation, or just being slow in general. Its the first check I do every time I think about switching browsers.

However with the new Electrolysis on Firefox its completely broken and it seems like the dev might not want to do a rewrite since the plugin works exactly how you would want it and has for a few years now, but especially not if the sandbox changes make the plugin impossible to work.

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